What is up with my milk?!

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What is up with my milk?!
« on: September 19, 2007, 09:49:31 AM » by Aura

Short version -- my buttermilk is turning into curds and whey!! And so did my yogurt. Huh

Long version -- I've been getting some wonderful certified raw milk from a dairy for about a year now. Several months ago, I finally came across an easy way of separating the cream from the milk. I use a 2 gallon dispenser (one with the spigot at the bottom) and dispense the milk as I use it. The cream collects at the top, and after I've emptied about 3-4 gallons gradually into the container, I get about 3/4 gallon of cream collected in it. I empty that into a gallon jar and let it condense for a couple of days. Then, I skim the cream from that and make butter. This was working great. I was getting plenty of butter and a lot less buttermilk this way (and it didn't take as long to churn into butter).

Then, about 1 maybe 2 months ago, I noticed that my buttermilk, as it was sitting in the fridge waiting its turn to be used, would separate into what looked like curds and whey. It didn't stink. It was not curdled milk! I just shook it up and used it for cooking anyway. It seemed to work fine for bread, pancakes, biscuits, whatever. I never had any problems.

Yesterday, I finally got around to making some homemade yogurt (something I've been going to do, just haven't done it). I borrowed my mom's yogurt maker and decided that to save on milk, I'd use my FRESH buttermilk from the butter I'd churned that morning. Maybe that was a mistake Roll Eyes

because of course, it didn't turn out.

I was bringing the milk to a boil and as it started to heat up, curds started to form. I didn't know what to do, so I went ahead and brought it to a boil, then strained it through a cloth and went ahead with the yogurt making. I hung the cloth with the curds in it over a pitcher and let it drain overnight (I figured it would be interesting to see what happened) and used the rest of the milk to make the yogurt.

Well, this morning, I have warm, yogurty-smelling whey in the yogurt maker. Just as soupy as if it was skim milk. The curds in the fridge formed what looks like very crumbly cheese (like dry ricotta). My sil tasted it and said it tasted like cottage cheese in desperate need of salt.

So, my question, what is up with my milk?!?! Don't you have to have rennet or some other kind of enzyme to make cheese? Why is my milk making cheese without it? Or maybe it isn't really cheese? Huh

Any ideas? I am completely lost here. Huh

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 09:58:52 AM » by Whiterock

You may just need to thouroughly scrub and sterilize your containers. My mom says that after a while things buildup on the stuff you use for milking (pails, strainers, buckets, etc.) and will cause the milk to do funny things. So maybe that's the case here too.
WR

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 07:33:29 PM » by Aura

I wash the containers everytime I take the cream out of them--which is every few days. Maybe washing with dish soap just isn't good enough, though? I guess I could try adding a little bleach to it. Thanks for the help!

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 10:00:45 PM » by herbalmom

As far as I know, buttermilk won't work for yogurt because it's the PROTEIN in milk that thickens yogurt & buttermilk is low in protein.

As far as the rest of the problems your having, I would try making sure you disassemble the spigot on the container & throughly wash it. Here's a thought that just occurred to me- is your container plastic? If so, it is VERY hard if not impossible to get completely clean, esp with fats. Anyway, you might want to try a GLASS iced tea jar & each time you wash it disassemble the spigot & throughly clean it as well. I frequently use a baking soda paste to clean things like that that could easily have a film left on them. Damp salt or damp borax work also. HTH Blessings ~herbalmom

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2007, 10:14:08 AM » by ladyhen

I would also suggest sterilizing with heat either by boiling or in warm oven for 20 minutes or more. I'm real fussy about keeping my milk jars clean and we don't use bleach.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 10:55:54 AM » by Aura

I'm not crazy about plastic, but it was all I could find. The only glass dispenser was a sun tea jar and it leaked everywhere, the spigot was too high on the jar, and the 2-gal size really works better than the 1-gal. Undecided

I guess I will look around a little more. Maybe I can find something online.

But why not bleach? Seems that would disinfect/sterilize really good. Huh

I can put my glass jars in the dishwasher and run a santizing cycle for that, but I don't think that would work for the dispenser.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2007, 11:31:49 AM » by Kitty

Aura-

My supplier has soap (he uses it for cleaning his supplies) that he shares freely w/ me for my containers. I use it when things are REALLY bad. Shocked

Someone mentioned using hydrogen peroxide on another milk thread...you could search for that...I use it sometimes, too.

I also use glass juice containers (1/2 gallon) from my local grocery store. They're from a local "Rice Juice" company...I dump the "juice" Tongue

and use it for milk. Do you have glass juice bottles in your grocery store?

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2007, 12:54:57 PM » by Aura

I have gallon glass jars that use, too. I put the cream in it to condense before skimming it. These get washed in the dishwasher with the sani-rinse. My dispenser, however, is plastic. Undecided

It doesn't fit in the dishwasher and I don't think it would get clean enough even it did. I wash it by hand. I did scrub it this morning really good with bleach and then again with baking soda. It certainly felt clean! Then I read the above post about not using bleach and was wondering if I maybe messed up on that one. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. Roll Eyes

The thing with the 2-gal dispenser is that I can top off the milk with an additional gallon and allow the cream to collect instead of having to skim every gallon. Then, I dispense the cream into the jar and let it condense before making butter. It makes it easier to get just cream for making butter. But I don't want dirty milk, either. Undecided

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2007, 05:05:44 PM » by Aura

Just thought I'd give an update. I've been washing the milk container with soap and then with GSE. I haven't had the problem of the curdling/turning-into-cheese-and-whey since I've been doing that.

I guess that my container wasn't getting clean enough and that's what caused the milk to do that. Anyway, maybe that will help if anyone else has this problem.

BTW, the bleach made the container slimy feeling and I had to scrub with baking soda to get it clean, again. I guess that's why you don't want to use bleach.

Aura

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 08:30:06 PM » by ladyhen

Glad that your milk jar problems are resolved! I like using soap and GSE for cleaning, too.

I just realized reading this that I was the one who said that I didn't use bleach... OOPS! I didn't mean to say that nobody should use bleach, just that I don't. We deal with a lot of severe chemical allergies in our household, so chlorine bleach is right out.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2007, 02:17:22 PM » by petrimama

The farmer we buy ours from uses that concentrated peroxide that they sell at healthfood stores. ~L

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2007, 09:44:59 PM » by Mama Sita

Aura,
Glad you found out what works (GSE) to clean your milk containers. I want to 'second' the NOT using bleach. Chlorine is very poisonous to the body. It is very toxic and is implicated in many cancers. I highly encourage you to NOT use chlorine.

I have found a great way to clean my glass milk jars. I always wash them in hot soapy water, followed by a good, long rinse. I air dry my jars, then, just before I take them back to the farm to fill up, I put in about 2-3 drops iodine (organic, food grade), add filtered water, swish around to cover all sides of the jar, and simply dump out the iodine mixture. I do not rinse again after rinsing with iodine. The iodine keeps my milk fresh even up to a week (does not sour) AND supplements my family with a small amount of iodine that I find we absolutely need, especially in my neck of the woods (Great Lakes area).

Just a thought--GSE, iodine or even hydrogen peroxide are all excellent cleaners for your milk jars. Please, please stay away from chlorine bleach!

Hope this helps ya!

Oh yeah--we ONLY put our milk into glass jars. Much easier to keep clean.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 05:16:24 PM by Mama Sita »
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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2007, 03:23:48 PM » by mom24boys

Quote from: Aura on September 19, 2007, 09:49:31 AM

Yesterday, I finally got around to making some homemade yogurt (something I've been going to do, just haven't done it). I borrowed my mom's yogurt maker and decided that to save on milk, I'd use my FRESH buttermilk from the butter I'd churned that morning. Maybe that was a mistake Roll Eyes

Ricotta is exactly what you made. It is made from cream that has the butterfat removed (has been made into butter), leaving behind the whey-like "buttermilk" or most commonly from the whey left after making cheese.

When it is heated up, the residual proteins clump together and make ricotta cheese.

Non-cultured (not the stuff from the store but the stuff from making butter) butter milk can be used in many ways cooking but cannot be used as a "complete" milk product anymore whereas, cultured buttermilk can.

Here is a very cool site that has lots of fermenting and culturing instruction:
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2007, 04:21:39 PM » by lovingmomof2

Okay, I have been getting raw cow's milk for about 2 weeks now. It seams to go sour just little over a week after I get it. I now have what I think is curds and whey. Is there anything I can do with this or do I need to toss it out? Undecided

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2007, 04:26:25 PM » by his.silly.wife

Quote from: lovingmomof2 on December 27, 2007, 04:21:39 PM

That sounds normal for raw milk. It has a shorter shelf life than pasteurized. I would use the soured milk in baking; muffins, cakes, buns, that sort of thing.

Check this thread:
http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,7253.0.html

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2007, 05:53:50 PM » by sweetestday

Quote from: lovingmomof2 on December 27, 2007, 04:21:39 PM

Yep, I only buy enough for a wek, because it seems to sour after that. You can still use it for pancakes, muffins, or whatever.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 09:37:49 PM by sweetestday »
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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2007, 06:52:11 PM » by lovingmomof2

Is there anything I can do once it gets chunky? Huh

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2007, 08:38:40 PM » by diaperswyper

I have friends that grew up with their mom setting the milk out on the counter til it would sour and seperate, and then they would strain it and sqeeze out any liquid and what would be left would be old fashioned cottage cheese. You could try it. Undecided

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2007, 09:02:49 PM » by Kitty

My milk lasts about 5 days, max (by that I mean, we can taste it going a bit sour. It doesn't separate for at least a week). I use the sour milk in pancakes, etc...see that above mentioned thread (presumably on Sour Milk Recipes). I don't care for it in yogurt...maybe kefir would work (per lotsaboys' gut instincts) Wink

. I'm going to try making some viili soon (Finnish "yogurt"). Some say you can freeze the sour milk, too.

I need to learn to use the curds. I know the whey is useful for making sauerkraut ( I think), beet kvass, and for soaking my oats or other grains overnight.

Just found a thread:
Curds & Whey

« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 09:12:30 PM by Yooper »
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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2007, 09:35:15 PM » by boysmama

Are you all picking up fresh milk or is it already a few days old when y'all get it? Goat milk may start to develop flavor after 5 days because of the enzymes but neither cow nor goat milk should sour for 10-14 days with proper handling and refridgeration. Just a consideration with raw milk consumption.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2007, 09:46:20 PM » by ladyhen

I am wondering about the age of your milk and how it has been handled, too. The woman that I buy from sells me that morning's milking which, after she strains it, is put into my sterilized glass jars and set to cool in cold water. After it has cooled, she puts it in the refrigerator until I pick it up.

Mine keeps in the 'frig for about 14 days before there is a change in the taste. This is great for me, as I only need to pick up milk every two weeks.

Introducing bacteria to my milk is one of the reasons that I wash and sterilize my own glass jars to leave with the farmer. After my jars are sterilized, I put plastic wrap over the opening and then screw the lid on.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2007, 10:45:14 PM » by LKS

My milk doesn't get chunky until I don't how long (never kept it around) but it does start to take on an "off" flavor after about 5 days. I have noticed the cream tends to "sour" first so if I skim it well, the milk stays fresher longer. My husband is a milk snob & since I get new milk every morning we give the older stuff to the animals. But I think a week is pretty normal. I have found that to be true w/ cow & goat milk.
LKS

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2007, 07:59:25 AM » by Kitty

I pick up milk twice a week (1 1/2 - 2 gallons at a time). If I label it "Wednesday", I receive Tuesday night's milking from around 8 or 9 PM, and I pick it up sometime Wednesday. It's usually 24 hours old when I get it.

I would say that my jugs are NOT sterile, and they sit (lidded) in his fridge for 3-4 days awaiting filling. Maybe that's why... Huh

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2007, 08:47:21 AM » by HeyMom

Quote from: blessed213 on December 27, 2007, 09:46:20 PM

Introducing bacteria to my milk is one of the reasons that I wash and sterilize my own glass jars to leave with the farmer. After my jars are sterilized, I put plastic wrap over the opening and then screw the lid on.

We have sold our goats milk before and this is similar to what I did for those buying it - I have/will always use glass jars for this. Our milk around here though never makes it past a few days old and then we are on to fresh - we go through it fast.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2007, 09:24:20 AM » by lovingmomof2

We receive our milk in a regular looking milk jug, plastic. It is sealed and everything. It comes with a label that says something like for animals only, not fit for human consumption. It has to have that label in order to be sold in our state. Is the plastic causing the problem? I have to admit I really don't know much about milk except that raw is better. My friend is the one who found this lady and I fully trust my friend, they are the pickiest food people I know.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2007, 10:21:44 AM » by ladyhen

Quote from: lovingmomof2 on December 28, 2007, 09:24:20 AM

You said it is lasting a little over a week, and I would think that is normal. Just plan on baking, cooking, or making cheese if it gets to where you can't drink it.

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2007, 11:07:31 AM » by farmgirls

Hello!
I have never posted here on WTM, only on Urban Exodus, so this will be a bit different! Grin

I do have experience with milk however. We raise goats and a have a cow that we sell shares from(if you are all know what that is). We use all stainless steel buckets and glass jars. We do use a bit of bleach to clean out the inflations(we use a milker)when we are done milking, but that is it. We also have a dairy soap especially for such equipment. I have to say plastic is much harder to keep clean. Our costumers have told us that our milk last 2 or more weeks! Thankfully they have all been happy.
Just a little info about what we do with our milk! With our cow milk we have been making buttermilk, butter, sour cream, ice cream,cheese and just drinking it plain! Is anybody else making sour cream? All of our milk is raw, so it doesn't last as long as store bought, but it tastes fine!

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2007, 04:03:21 PM » by boysmama

Quote from: lovingmomof2 on December 28, 2007, 09:24:20 AM

Do you pick it up from the farm?

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Re: What is up with my milk?!
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2008, 04:27:36 PM » by beckyoto

Quote from: farmgirls on December 28, 2007, 11:07:31 AM

Just a little info about what we do with our milk! With our cow milk we have been making buttermilk, butter, sour cream, ice cream,cheese and just drinking it plain! Is anybody else making sour cream?

Bump!

Oooo, homemade sour cream?!! How do you do that? or Where can I learn how to do that? Grin