Organic vs. Standard produce

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Organic vs. Standard produce
« on: November 14, 2007, 03:40:40 PM » by cecac

I was reading the Bananas thread that was up today and have a general question that's been niggling at me for a long time.

Someone please move this if I am asking something already asked. I perused the veggie/fruit topics and didn't see it. I apologize in advance if I've started a thread I shouldn't.

I don't buy organic because I really can't afford that and the excellent raw milk that we do get. Dh is set on that milk. He's right on with that because we have noticed an increase of health with that one item added, and we also do try to avoid preserves/chems/sugar. We can't buy organic meat either, so we settled on natural.

Anyway, would it be better to cut down on our fruit/veggie intake instead of eating it with all the pesticide stuff that I read about? We could fill up on other stuff, but it would be cooked.

Guess I wonder about the meat (what with horomones) although the meat guy at Costco explained that the natural stuff is raised humanely and no horomones or antibiotics. Undecided

We could cut down on that too.

Any opinions/discussions on this one?

Thank you,
Cara

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007, 04:37:09 PM » by lotsaboys

Glad ya asked, Cara. Its been "niggling" us too.

Our family loves fresh fruit and usually eat a lot, but the more brainwashed I get here on WTM Wink

the more I cringe when buying fruit and there is NO way we can afford the organic prices I've seen around here! So, yeah, anyone have good advice for us? Do we skip the advantage of fruit in our diet to avoid pesticides, etc. or....what?

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 04:43:29 PM » by Kitty

Isn't there a thread somewhere that lists the foods most susceptible to pesticides? I.e., telling you that these would be the best to get organic (like apples, strawberries)...or to buy certain fruit from particular countries and avoid other ones...and I know there are discussions on fruit/veggie wash (ACV, salt, etc)...no time to search now, but I know you two are good at finding things! Wink

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 05:00:46 PM » by lotsaboys

Thanks Yooper.

I know its somewhere... don't have time either. Cheesy

Apples are the problem for us. The kids love em and organic costs and arm and a leg. Tongue

We do the acv wash, but not sure how much good it does...

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 05:05:34 PM » by BJ_BOBBI_JO

I'm in the same boat. I can choose to buy 1 , perhaps 2 organic apples for me and the kids to fight and slaughter eachother over Shocked

or I can choose to buy an entire bag of apples that are not organic.

I kind of like the non-fighting part better. Roll Eyes

I figure all we can do is what we can do and we cant do any more. So if we cant afford the organic foods then so be it and we should try to accept that. When others preach to me how I should only eat organic foods I kindly ask them if they would care to purchase those foods for me with their own money or if they would please buy my diabetic supplies so we can afford to buy our own organic foods. They instantly back away and decide that perhaps eating 100% organic is not as important as they 1st thought. LOL. Cheesy

I would rather eat the non organic fruit and veggies then to eat none at all. They still have some good nutrients in them at least and they are better then eating highly processed packaged foods. All these rules on what, how and where to eat can bog us down and something that we allow to bog us down like that is not good for our health mentally, emotionally, spiritually or physically IMO

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 05:07:48 PM » by leslieincali

Here's a link to the "dirty dozen"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13737389/page/2/

I try to get these in organic form. Leslie

« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 05:09:33 PM by leslieincali »
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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 05:48:17 PM » by SC

When we decided to begin eating organic fresh produce, our income did not change. I had to figure out how to do the best I could within the limitation of my budget. We had serious health considerations that wouldn't allow us to continue eating the same foods.

It's a trade-off.

If the goal is to continue eating a lot of fruit for snacks, lots of processed cereals, breads, cookies, crackers, etc. and to be able to eat out a lot, then I don't know how to make the same amount of $ cover those items AND organic produce.

As I gradually made changes, we found that we didn't need the huge quantities of pre-packaged foods, that we could actually make our own from scratch, and that some weeks, we wouldn't have any fruit at all, but just green veggies and root crops. Fruit around our house is now a treat rather than a staple. I think it makes the kids appreciate it more. We tend to eat more berries than apples. IMO, the increased nutrients in our organic veggie broths, salads, etc. curb the urge to graze throughout the day.

So, no, we didn't win the lottery. Hubby didn't get a raise. Some meals are just two items. Some meals are no-meat. Lots of meals are leftovers. We manage to eat organic on very little $.

Next year, I'm looking into participating in a community sponsored organic farm where we trade labor for food credits. I've also found out that one of the large wholesalers at our state farmer's market will take orders for organic produce. I'm considering going that route to add some variety as well as save $.

I think that when I laid aside my resentment of having to change and began to view it as an adventure, things got a little easier for me to handle. JMO

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 06:07:11 PM » by ladyhen

Since we moved to the Midwest and, due to our house's location, are not able to have a good garden going, I have had to be creative to keep good quality produce on our family's table.
One way that I am able to buy organic for our family is to go to farms where you can pick your own fruit locally when it is in season and preserve it by canning or freezing. There are a lot of farms here that, although not certified organic, raise their produce without chemicals. There is a Farmer's Market once a week throughout the Summer and most of the Fall where we can buy from local farmers. There is an organic farmer there who we have become friends with who puts aside the less lovely veggies and sells them to me for a reduced price.
It took some looking around and asking for me to find some of these options. It took two years here before I was put in contact with a small apple farm where they don't use chemicals and he makes his own acv without pasturization.
Yes, I have to set a limit on how much I can do/spend to have better food for my family. But we believe it is well worth the effort that we can put in to have such a healthy family.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 06:11:36 PM » by mhsmama4

SC's post sums up a lot of what I believe about this as well. Same here, health problems and lots of reading prompted many changes, and I knew we had to make them on a budget. Cutting way down on eating out helped a great deal for us, but if someone wasn't eating out to start it might not be such a help for them.

We also try to get the "dirty dozen" in organic, but what we can't I use a produce wash on and try not to sweat it. Another thing we do is use a lot of frozen organic berries in smoothies and such...frozen still aren't cheap but are somewhat better costwise than fresh and berries are extremely healthful and easy to find in frozen.

On the meat, "natural" does not necessarily mean it was raised humanely; you just have to research the brand. We found we get grass-fed, hormone and antibiotic-free meat much cheaper by buying a large quantity, such as a half cow, etc... . I have yet to find chickens reasonably prices, but try to make every bit count by using the carcass for wholesome broths to be used as a basis for soups.

I think we just have to do what we CAN do, and trust in God's protection for us for what we cannot afford. I do know, for me (I'm not saying this is true for everyone else), there are generally other things I can cut out in which to save more money for food if necessary.

HTH.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 06:44:35 PM » by SC

I just remembered something that helped me a lot on my journey as I was trying to decide what/which types of produce I would/could purchase. At some point, I was moved to just LEARN. I began to read as much quality material as I could lay my hands on and I repeated to myself, "We can't quite manage this YET." What I didn't realize at the time was that I was arming myself with information. When I saw a symptom or reaction, I had already read up on the subject and could move forward confidently and make adjustments as they were necessary.

The change was gradual, but it came only AFTER I was willing to LEARN. As long as I sat back with folded arms and said, "This isn't possible! We can't afford to do that! We could never . . . My family will never go along with . . ." my thinking held me back. Once I determined to learn the material believing that it could/would be useful one day, then I was able to look for practical ways that I COULD incorporate it into my daily routine. My family likes sweets, potatoes, gravy, meat and bread. My task was to find a way to offer these things in a quality, nutrient dense way that wasn't harmful to their health.

Don't believe for one second it was easy, but it was simple. It was a gradual learning process. I had to determine to have patience enough with myself to try things more than once (as I often failed the first try).

The day I stopped railing at my plight and began to move forward with faith and purpose was the day I began to make progress.

But I'm not there . . . YET! Wink

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 08:30:44 PM » by cecac

Thank you, everyone, for this thoughtful discussion. We do not eat out as a family, although my husband takes me on a date night some weeks during the month.

I like SC's point on reading up because perhaps there are symptoms that are caused by eating the produce. Although, I have to admit, my family has very few symptoms for which I am thankful. Guess I don't want to get to where we do have symptoms, though, KWIM?

Another side issue, I hope this is not offensive. It's just that I've gotten burned by reading a lot. Guess that's because I believed what I read and while it was true, it wasn't completely true and therefore bit me in the backside (this is on health/food issues). Maybe (just maybe) I can maturely read now, if there is such a thing for me. I'm beginning to think I've gotta be 70 or something before that's gonna happen, lol.

I did not realize that apples were one of the dirty dozen, so I guess I'll be searching for that thread. Didn't like what I read on the banana thread, either. Guess which three fruits we eat? Bananas, Apples, and organic raisins with no sulphur. So, I could skip the bananas and apples and go for the organic frozen blueberries for kefir smoothies. I'd probably come out about the same.

In the veggie department, yikes!! This is Austin, TX. You put the word organic on it (and all of our produce departments have organics as well as a Farmers Market on Saturday not very far from me), and that means it's "special" and "unique" and about twice the price. Roll Eyes

Austin's so hip.

I'll have to check on cabbage in that dirty dozen because maybe I could cut lettuce and go to cabbage and organic carrot slaw or something. I mean, we already do that a lot, but maybe I should do that more. We also eat a lot of cut up veggies for lunch. Not sure about that.

Quote from: BJ_BOBBI_JO on November 14, 2007, 05:05:34 PM

I'm in the same boat. I can choose to buy 1 , perhaps 2 organic apples for me and the kids to fight and slaughter eachother over Shocked

or I can choose to buy an entire bag of apples that are not organic.

I kind of like the non-fighting part better. Roll Eyes

BJ, I've thought like you many a time. Undecided

I guess if I stay doing the same I could at least get motivated enough to use apple cider vinegar.

I'd appreciate anything else, and thank you all for contributing. Keeps me thinking, and I need that.

Cara

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 08:35:45 PM » by cecac

Okay, so I looked at the dirty dozen list (thank you leslie) and bananas were listed under what you COULD eat non-organic. Broccoli, too, so maybe cabbage? Angry

peppers, potatoes, celery were no-no's Tongue

Hmmmm,
Cara

« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 08:37:30 PM by cecac »
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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 09:39:48 PM » by Kitty

Re: apples, we find local apples at our co-op...not organic, but we know that they don't spray. My parents also have an abundance of apples. I need to learn how to keep apples longer...I know people do it! Our grocery store even carried apples from MN recently, unwaxed, unsprayed, etc...99 cents/#. After reading SC's post on touring the apple place and what they did to apples Shocked

...we're certainly motivated to avoid conventional, waxed apples. Tongue

I appreciated the remarks on fruit being more of a treat than a staple, too. We're moving toward that...we use dried and frozen fruit more than we used to.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 09:54:31 PM » by mhsmama4

You may have already done this, but I tried searching on Local Harvest; here's what I got: http://www.localharvest.org/search-csa.jsp?&zip=73301&lat=30.220228&lon=-97.74994&scale=8&p=1 Don't know if this would be an option for your family...our nearest CSA is 90 miles away so we don't do that right now, just do what someone else mentioned and buy things as locally as possible when in season.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 10:39:53 PM » by cecac

Quote from: mhsmama4 on November 14, 2007, 09:54:31 PM

Thank you!! I started looking at it, but it will take a while. There's a lot of stuff around here. I really liked one company that services our zipcode and bring right to the door--but the prices were a bit high. Goodness that would be neat, though.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2007, 12:57:38 PM » by healthybratt

I know this is going to sound cliche, but my husband has to have an apple every day to aid his digestion. Grin

If he doesn't eat them, his belly gives him fits. So for him, apples are a staple and I am just now getting around to considering organic. My grocer carries organic bananas at 40 cents/lb higher than regular bananas but doesn't carry organic apples. This makes me cringe thinking how much apples are going to cost me when I find them. I'm already paying $.99-$1.99 for regular apples. I'm skeert of what organic is going to cost me (including the gas to go find them). Any suggestions?

I would just plant a tree, but I think it will take awhile before I get any returns on my investment. Grin

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2007, 01:30:48 PM » by cecac

Quote from: healthybratt on November 17, 2007, 12:57:38 PM

I know this is going to sound cliche, but my husband has to have an apple every day to aid his digestion. Grin

If you get on that link mhsmama4 gave, perhaps you could find some leads on there? I've seen a lot on that site, but still the prices are high. Undecided

We can't grow apples here, or maybe crabapples Roll Eyes

but we can grow figs, blackberries, pears and peaches. Dh and I and my parents have started batting that idea around for the last year. Maybe we'll see some "fruition" come out of all that talk. I hope so.

Ya know, I'm still niggling on this. I am wondering if it really is as big of a concern as I can tend to make it. I don't want to sound opinionated or anything, nor do I want to offend anyone, but I really do not want to make myself or anyone else weighted down by something that perhaps is not a concern. Undecided

See, for this family, I've noticed that our health is very good if we stay away from packages (most of the tiime) and sugar. I pretty much let us eat raw & cooked fruits and veggies with every meal.

So I'm trying to make a comparison in my thinking. What if I altered the diet to cut out most produce that is not organic. What if I allowed my family to be filled up on other things (perhaps cooked) and just wipe out the produce in the budget. What would happen?

Ya know, I think we might need a thread on WTM where we report success stories in overall diet. Something like, My family is healthy, and here's what we eat.....

It might help us all Huh

.

TO THOSE OF YOU WHO MADE A SWITCH TO MOSTLY ORGANIC PRODUCE: Can you tell us what pluses you saw when you made the switch? That might prove helpful.

Thank you,
Cara

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2007, 02:02:19 PM » by crystal

Quote from: healthybratt on November 17, 2007, 12:57:38 PM

I know this is going to sound cliche, but my husband has to have an apple every day to aid his digestion. Grin

Does dh need the peeling for his digestion? I know that there is a lot of fiber in the peeling, but if you only can buy conventional apples, peeling them will get rid of some of the pesticides.

I can't believe that you pay that much for regular apples, though. It is apple season. We are paying .79 max! Mostly .69 and under. Of course, that is for regular, not organic.

Do consider, though, that regardless of what they cost you, they seem to be a necessary staple in your household and, thus, worth the extra $, simply because daily exposure to a high pesticide retaining fruit may have negative repercussions in the long run. More negative than the effect that buying organic has on your budget.

This is a dilemna that we all face - looking at our individual family's needs, our budgets and our health - and then trying to balance it all out adequately. I am just beginning to realize that it is a process of processing the information slowly and then applying what I have learned in a slow manner, also. I tend to be an all or nothing, I want it now, kind of person - so I am on a really stiff curve here.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 02:50:18 PM by crystal »
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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2007, 02:27:21 PM » by mhsmama4

Quote from: healthybratt on November 17, 2007, 12:57:38 PM

I know this is going to sound cliche, but my husband has to have an apple every day to aid his digestion. Grin

This is not something you can just easily do, but ask around when you can, and check bulletin boards in public places. We saw a little roadside cart a while back while driving out in the country, stopped, and of all things, these people were selling organic (not certified, but in practice) apples for 10 for $1 OR $10 a bushel. Needless to say, we bought apples and had plenty to eat, plus I made our applesauce and apple butter for the rest of the year. We found the people we get our raw goat's milk from by a business card they'd left at the health food store.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2007, 02:31:47 PM » by mhsmama4

Quote from: cecac on November 17, 2007, 01:30:48 PM

Ya know, I'm still niggling on this. I am wondering if it really is as big of a concern as I can tend to make it. I don't want to sound opinionated or anything, nor do I want to offend anyone, but I really do not want to make myself or anyone else weighted down by something that perhaps is not a concern. Undecided

.

TO THOSE OF YOU WHO MADE A SWITCH TO MOSTLY ORGANIC PRODUCE: Can you tell us what pluses you saw when you made the switch? That might prove helpful.

Thank you,
Cara

Cara,

I think you may be on to something there with this line of thinking. We can't find lots of organic produce here overall, so I buy what fruits we can (mostly frozen) and some veggies, but many times resort to the big bags of veggies from Sam's Club (not organic). Because of a clotting disorder I have, I can't really have loads of the commonly-prescribed "leafy greens" that are supposed to be so good for us. So, we eat organic dairy, organic or at least grass-fed meat raised without hormones or antibiotics, beans, organic grains, etc... .

I don't have a "miracle" story for you, but having lupus, my symptoms have really been better the past few years since making these cahnges. No dramatic overnight changes, just better overall. I rarely need meds for lupus symptoms any more, and before I was constantly on stuff for the arthritis pain, etc... .

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2007, 02:44:05 PM » by Rikki

We buy probably 90% organic fruits and veggies, only buying non organic when organic isn't available. From what I understand it wouldn't be an immediate difference, but more trying to avoid pesticides, etc for a long period of time. This is where you health issues come from. If you are mostly organic in other areas of your diet and can't make the change to fruits and veggies yet --- don't stress! Chemicals are everywhere -- cleaning products, laundry soaps, cosmetics, meats, chicken, dairy, eggs, along with your produce. I think it's eating non organic everything that causes the most problems for people. Over a period of time that would be A LOT of chemicals put into our bodies....causing all sorts of disease, cancer, sickness, bad immune system, etc...just do the best you can! If there are only a few things that you can't do, relax....you're doing better than most! Any area in your life where you can go natural is better for you and your family! I would definitely think that eating veggies (organic or non organic) would be better for your family than not eating them at all! That's just my opinion though! Especially if you have already made changes in other areas of you life!!
was that to much of a ramble or did it make sense? Tongue

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2007, 02:51:13 PM » by KristenA

ForeverGirl did a podcast with me on this subject:
http://backtobasicspodcast.com/Welcome/Podcast/Entries/2007/6/24_Organic%3A__Does_It_Matter.html

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2007, 05:37:27 PM » by cecac

Thank you ladies. I've listened to the podcast and read what everyone is saying.

The thing is, even if I personally quit buying as much produce, or just bought what I could organic and dropped some of it, I don't really know what I'd fill the family up on. Undecided

Maybe doing a two week challenge might be good. I could figure out what I spend per week on regular produce, then go ahead and see how much produce I could get organic for the same price. I might be pleasantly surprised.

Dh heard the podcast too and he's saying that yeah, we oughta look into it--but he also said maybe we should do without apples. I betcha though, that I could get organic carrots in bulk for a better price. So, maybe we'll eat carrots more.

Still thinking Grin

,
Cara

« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 05:48:24 PM by cecac »
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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2007, 06:18:30 PM » by prairiechild

Our walmart just started carrying organic apples. A three pound sack is $4.99 which is much more reasonable than our local HFS.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2007, 09:35:16 AM » by Jemima

I haven't been overly concerned about eating organic produce overall. Yet, I've been realizing more and more, that it's something worth thinking about! I only buy organic when I see a great sale - (once I got organic grapes for a dollar a pound!) - and I feel great about it.

I don't want to be polluting our bodies with chemicals by any means! But, I have to agree with what some have said, that by changing our diets to include lots of fruits and veggies, and eliminating the processed foods and sugar, we're already doing ourselves a huge favor. And personally, no offense to those of you who do this, I have a hard time accepting the thought that fresh fruit/produce is a treat. My feeling is that we need that fresh, raw food, and the benefits it contains overrules any "bad" they might carry along. I always wash everything with hot water and a white vinegar spray, letting it sit a awhile to work. Not that it gets rid of everything, but I think it helps.

Sure, I'd love all organic everything! And we are able to get most of our meat from people we know, thankfully. But I agree with Cara and Rikkichic - do the best you can, with what you have, and don't add stress to your risk factors!

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2007, 02:19:18 PM » by Ami H.

Quote from: healthybratt on November 17, 2007, 12:57:38 PM

I know this is going to sound cliche, but my husband has to have an apple every day to aid his digestion. Grin

I think I would start by planting two trees.............then in a few years you would have a partial solution. BTW, they have organic apples at the Super Target in West Des Moines. I haven't been there in a while, but last I remember, they were 3 # bag full of apples and they tiny and pathetic looking. Oh and twice the price of regular. It was frustrating.
One thing we do is buy organic frozen veggies by the case at United Food Coop and we buy organic applesauce by the case. And we still by quite a bit of regular unorganic produce...........since I haven't figured out a better plan yet.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2007, 03:28:15 PM » by queentea

Quote from: healthybratt on November 17, 2007, 12:57:38 PM

I know this is going to sound cliche, but my husband has to have an apple every day to aid his digestion. Grin

I don't know if you have a Trader Joe's anywhere around you, but I get a 3 lb bag of organic apples for 3.69. (1.23 lb.) Not too bad for organic. They are smaller, but my kids all think they taste so much better than non-organic apples. Same apples at the local grocery are 4.99 a bag!

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2007, 09:48:25 PM » by skelliott2

My Sam's club sells bags of organic Fuji apples. They're really good, and priced pretty well. I forget the actual amount, but wasn't shocked by it. Do you have a Sam's near you??

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2007, 11:22:02 PM » by makingchanges

Quote from: skelliott2 on November 18, 2007, 09:48:25 PM

My Sam's club sells bags of organic Fuji apples. They're really good, and priced pretty well. I forget the actual amount, but wasn't shocked by it. Do you have a Sam's near you??

I just bought some of the apples. It wound up being $1.20 /pound. Not bad for organic apples.

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Re: Organic vs. Standard produce
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2007, 10:37:44 AM » by cecac

About Walmart and Sam's--are they really organic? There's been a bit of a problem there, but I don't remember which state or what the "organic" was that they admitted was mislabled.......

I wouldn't want ya'll spending that much for something that's not really, ya know?

Okay, so here in Austin I guess I don't have too much to complain about with organic apples--my mom last week bought them from a health food store (gala, yummy) at 99 cents a pound. They go on sale around here sometimes. I've been known to buy a box.

I invite you to come HB!!

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