Lymes: Prevention

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Lymes: Prevention
« on: April 09, 2008, 02:39:54 PM » by Roehrmomma

I read somewhere that if you can mix garlic in your pets food that will keep fleas and ticks at bay...So what about us? I think it really at least couldn't hurt.

I would do a natural bug spray too. ( and really get the hair.) We are gonna be out in the woods a lot this year. ( we want MORELS!! Grin

) So We will do all we can to fend them off. I wonder if you each time really check yourself right away for ticks then use a plantain tincture in the bite several times if that would draw out the yuck? At least some to make it not as bad?

Yes I want more thoughts on this too!

Emily

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Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2008, 03:02:32 PM » by KristenA

I'd like a discussion about 2 things:

1. Prevention of Tick Bites (can carry Lymes)
2. Prevention of Lymes once you have been bitten by a tick.

I have heard that the bullseye does not necessarily have to be present in order to contract Lymes.

Are there things we can do like drinking ACV to make ticks not want to bite us? What about when we get bit? Taking garlic, etc?

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2008, 04:07:43 PM » by Kati*did

Well, this isn't entirely practical (and of course you would have to look like a walking tree), but Cabela's sells something called bug skinz for people like hunters who are always in the woods.

I know this isn't healthy, but I HATE ticks, so when I lived in TN, I did what a hunter told me he did: use a rag from his shop that had some diesel on it and rub it on the bottom of my jeans and on the top of the hat I was wearing. Apparently ticks don't like that. Anyway, I never got on one me.

I realize this doesn't really answer your question...sorry!

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Re: Vit C & Sea Salt - Lymes Treatment
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2008, 05:24:30 PM » by Gabriel Anast

Quote from: KristenA on April 09, 2008, 02:05:50 PM

We spend a lot of times in tick infested woods and many people around may have Lymes disease.
Has anyever heard of somthing preventative.

I know this sounds crazy, but I think it is an important and effective measure for avoiding bugs of all kinds:

Smoke / Smoking

Cigarettes probably work, but to be sure I don't recommend them... nor do I recommend almost any pre-packaged tobacco or smoking products... so many have added ammonia which makes them very addictive.

What I do recommend is an occasional Pipe or hand gathered, rolled, and smoked cigar / cigarette or a natural, hand gathered incense. I think that if one has a regular, mild source of "high quality" smoke (one that is relatively fresh and still has a lot of natural oils), it will help to greatly reduce insect bites. [Note: I don't smoke, and don't even use incense... but I live in NM and just don't deal with many insects. If I did live in Tick country, I guarantee that I would use natural incense of some sort... I think I would try "smoking" my coat and hat in some way...]

I am not sure exactly how this works practically, but I personally believe it is an effective deterrent for insect bites of all kinds. Beka has a book (a novel) somewhere about a guy that lived through the Black Plague... he loved to smoke cigars, and always slept on rooftops.

Why would smoke work? "Smoking" bees subdues them. Smoke is used similarly to flush ant infestations, and many other insects:

Flickr Photo
Orbville Photo

Literary Ref
Literary ref. to using cigars for fumigating greenhouses! - "Castles in the Air" by Mrs.Gore, 1847

...and here is a hilarious story that includes a reference to smoking out ticks with tobacco:

Quote from this genealogy page

Quote

SMOKING OUT FLEAS, By James A. Lowrey
   Some have witnessed and all have probably heard of the old time method of getting rid of ticks by smoking them with tobacco. When I was little "Jimmie", I witnessed a flea smoking that was both new and amusing, and I have never forgotten.
   I had gone one Saturday evening to spend the night with Aunt Julia Hobbs' children, and she was gone in the neighborhood somewhere, and just as soon as she came home, she began to hustle around to get supper.
   She soon spied the dogs coiled up and quietly snoozing under one of the beds. This put her in a fury, and she made a drive at them with the fire shovel. The dogs had evidently been sleeping with one eye open for they beat her to the door and made their escape. Then she called on Sis to bring her a shovelful of fire and some red pepper pods, saying unless she smoked the fleas out that they would eat us "bodaciously" up that
night. She put the shovel under the side of the bed and placed three or four pods of red pepper on the coals. As it did not smoke up to suit her, she stooped over and gave a long blow, and inhaled a long breath for another blow, but did not make it; those who have ever inhaled the fumes of burning pepper will know why she sprang to her feet, flew out of the door, and made about three runs around the house before she caught her breath.
   When she did get her breath she began to sneeze, and it was a word and a sneeze for nearly five minutes. All the children on the place except her son, Coon and myself had been scared almost out of their wits, and chased her around the house yelling "mam, mam, what's the matter, mam"? I distinctly remember them still; there were Bud, Sis, Nig, Dock and Betty. As I before stated, Coon stood by me with a broad grin on his face.
   When Aunt Julia stopped, she stood directly in front of us, and she thus delivered herself. "Coon, you great fool, (sneeze), if a body was a dyin, (sneeze), You'd laugh yer fool head off." (sneeze). She then ordered Bud to dash a pail of water on that "pesky" fire and pepper, put Sis to fixing supper, and started Coon and myself off to hunt some dry wood and kindling. Every little while, Coon would break out laughing at what he called "mam's funny antics."
   I have seen ticks smoked many times, but fleas only once, but that one sight has lasted me through all these years.

--gabe

PS: If you do smoke cigarettes or (most) other commercial tobacco... don't tell me its to keep the bugs at bay... ~~I'll tell you that you need to overcome your addiction~~ I'll just try to sell you on smoking something more natural / less processed.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 01:41:26 AM by ForeverGirl »
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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2008, 05:46:36 PM » by KristenA

The Incense idea intrigues me. Seems easy for adults and children.
I wonder what incense would be best for keeping ticks and mosquitos at bay?

I'm thinking I could burn one and let the smoke clinge to our clothes before leaving the house.....

Thoughts?

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2008, 05:50:46 PM » by Roehrmomma

Quote from: KristenA on April 09, 2008, 05:46:36 PM

(warning dumb thought Grin

)

Liquid smoke Cheesy

Don't say I didn't warn you!

Emily

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2008, 06:08:52 PM » by lotsaboys

Quote from: Roehrmomma on April 09, 2008, 05:50:46 PM

Quote from: KristenA on April 09, 2008, 05:46:36 PM

(warning dumb thought Grin

)

Liquid smoke Cheesy

Don't say I didn't warn you!

Emily

LOL! But... is it the actual smoke or the smell that deters them? Huh

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2008, 06:09:46 PM » by Mrs. B

I used to smoke cigarettes, but I quit back in 1993... so no boos or hisses... I also used to live in Alaska where mosquitos are the state bird...
I do have to admit that I did notice fewer bugs around when smoking... It did seem to be the smoke that was effective.

I was thinking about making a salve based upon the Thieves herbs, and maybe some tansy thrown in also as a summer bug deterent...
Any thoughts??

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2008, 06:10:13 PM » by Gabriel Anast

When we do buy incense, we like this brand:

http://www.inscents.com/

Otherwise, you can just make it yourself:

Amazing article on making incense - I have never tried this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incense

Native Americans would commonly just put Juniper or Cedar greens on a coal bed...

Of course a lot of smoke / ceremony in all cultures is religious or spiritual. This is a major part of most modern incense use as well, and that is not what I am getting at here... I hope this is obvious.

--gabe

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2008, 06:38:32 PM » by ForeverGirl

Quote

SURGEON GENERALS REPORT from 1964

Public Health Service, Publication No. 1103, Page No. 112

"Pipe Smokers who inhale live just as long as nonsmokers. Pipe smokers who don't inhale live longer than nonsmokers." (Death rate 20% less than for nonsmokers)"

http://members.aol.com/leahman/notconvinced.html

This is not an FDA site, and I don't know if the info can be backed up with real research or not...

but the info is interesting to me. I'd always heard that quality pipe tobacco is actually good for you...

I have a Navajo friend (girl my age) that would often smoke a pipe full of herbs in the evening after dinner... I don't know if she still does or not, but I always enjoyed the smell of her pipe. Now I need a pipe smoking smiley...

Rebekah

« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 04:25:01 PM by ForeverGirl »
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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2008, 07:15:52 PM » by Roehrmomma

Never smoked a thing in my life but LOVE the smell of a good pipe or cigar.

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 07:29:37 PM » by littlemama24

I bet the"smoke" thing has something to do with the nicotine. That , I've heard, is a main ingredient in many insecticides and repellants.

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2008, 07:31:34 PM » by crystal

Quote from: Roehrmomma on April 09, 2008, 07:15:52 PM

Never smoked a thing in my life but LOVE the smell of a good pipe or cigar.

Man, oh, Man do I agree. I LOVE walking by a tobacco shop in the mall! (Of course, I can't remember the last time I went shopping in a mall. It's all Goodwill for us! I love that, too! Cheesy

) My dad used to smoke cigars and pipes. The smell brings it all back.

Ok, off track.....sorry...maybe I'll start a new thread about tobacco? Wink

Just kidding....... Cheesy

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2008, 10:02:58 PM » by DawnsEarlyBirds

Quote from: lotsaboys on April 09, 2008, 06:08:52 PM

LOL! But... is it the actual smoke or the smell that deters them? Huh

We used to keep bees and it was the smoke itself that calmed them. In Maine we would smoke cigars to ward off the clouds of blackflies, and again, it was the smoke.

Now ticks, for the most part they come from down low. I would GUESS that smoking something wouldn't affect them, unless you are crawling around on the ground smoking. Maybe they don't like the smell, but I don't think it would have the same affect as the smoke ......

But this is only my 2 cents.

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2008, 01:42:56 AM » by ForeverGirl

Quote from: Mrs. B on April 09, 2008, 06:09:46 PM

I was thinking about making a salve based upon the Thieves herbs, and maybe some tansy thrown in also as a summer bug deterent...
Any thoughts??

I think, watch the tansy in a salve... it can be an irritant.

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2008, 01:46:15 AM » by ForeverGirl

Quote from: DawnsEarlyBirds on April 09, 2008, 10:02:58 PM

Now ticks, for the most part they come from down low. I would GUESS that smoking something wouldn't affect them, unless you are crawling around on the ground smoking.

Seed ticks fall on you from above... they nest in trees and fall out on you when you walk under... oh, they are nasty. Presumably, if you were smoking or had smoke in your clothes, they would abandon ship...

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2008, 07:57:36 AM » by DawnsEarlyBirds

Uhhhggg! I have never heard of seed ticks!!

Am also thinking a lot about the use of neem oil for ticks??? Woke up with my mind "ticking" about the subject, as the ticke season is about to start here. Our phone line is down until the snow melts so have only a few minutes online at a friends. I thought I saw something about a bug repellent made with neem, and so many garden insecticides use it ....

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2008, 08:18:35 AM » by DawnsEarlyBirds

Here are a couple links to articles about neem as a tick repellent (also fleas, mosquitoes, blackflies, etc.) There are lots more, though most seem to be about pets.

http://www.neemdirect.com/herbal.htm
http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=977237

And here is a place to specifically buy a neem outdoor spray from a Christian mission organization:

http://echobooks.org/product_info.php?cPath=150&products_id=838

« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 08:35:12 AM by DawnsEarlyBirds »
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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2008, 01:03:38 PM » by healthybratt

Quote from: Gabriel Anast on April 09, 2008, 06:10:13 PM

I asked a question about this, but it's not directly related to lyme's so I split the topic and moved it here.

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,17074.0.html

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Re: Vit C & Sea Salt - Lymes Treatment
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2008, 03:05:08 PM » by BJ_BOBBI_JO

Quote from: Gabriel Anast on April 09, 2008, 05:24:30 PM

Smoke / Smoking

Cigarettes probably work, but to be sure I don't recommend them... nor do I recommend almost any pre-packaged tobacco or smoking products... so many have added ammonia which makes them very addictive.

Yep it works so says my husband. Fresh tobacco dried and crushed is the best he says and not so addictive and unhealthy as the cancer sticks the stores sell. I suppose a person could get a smoker and carry it around, the kind of smokers beekeepers use but that might be inconvenient.
Camp fires also help freak out those bugs. My husband wont wear bug spray because he does not like the feel of it. So for him smoking and camp fires are his bug-be-gone cure when mowing the yard. But I certainly dont recommmend smoking even if it is fresh home grown tobacco like my hubby uses in his pipe. Either way it cant be healthy but it does work for the bugs.

I dont know if smoking the clothing would help or not? But I do know that having had camped in the woods tons of times in my life I have never had tons of ticks on me. I wonder if that could be because I always had smoke on me from the campfire we cooked on and sat around? I have had more ticks get on me while at home in my yard then I did in the woods. Could be because at home I was not cooking on and living around a campfire near as much as we do when camping?

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2008, 03:19:29 PM » by just jane

Our friends bought a property in the woods and every time they visited they would find ticks on their little girl. So, when they moved in they called a company in to spray or do something. What the company recommended was that they spray ONLY the EDGE of the woods as this is where the ticks live. Our friends had that done and have not seen ticks on their children since!!

Another lady who has Lyme and has went to several meetings said that ticks are carried from place to place on the bellies of mice and other rodents! So another option is to keep the mice away!

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2008, 05:55:10 PM » by DawnsEarlyBirds

We live in the woods and find ticks crawling around in the grass in our small amount of yard. It might help to spray the edges, but I wouldn't count on it to completely do the trick. Has anyone mentioned guineau fowl? Apparently the eat ticks, so if you don't mind their poop in the yard you could get a few and let them roam around eating the nasty critters. Our neighbors have some, and they do a good job eating ticks, but make a lot of noise.

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2008, 08:35:22 PM » by queentea

I've read somewhere that Listerine (original formula Tongue

) is a good insect repellant. Don't know if it works for ticks or not, but it might be worth a try. I'd spray it on clothes, not skin though.

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2008, 09:05:57 PM » by jhandrh

Listerine original formula is a good anything repellent! That's awful stuff! Tongue

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2008, 11:47:45 AM » by healthybratt

Quote from: jhandrh on April 26, 2008, 09:05:57 PM

Listerine original formula is a good anything repellent! That's awful stuff! Tongue

It doesn't repel healthybratts Wink

My favorite mouthwash....mmmm...feel the burn. Grin

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2008, 11:56:17 AM » by jhandrh

Quote from: healthybratt on April 27, 2008, 11:47:45 AM

Quote from: jhandrh on April 26, 2008, 09:05:57 PM

Listerine original formula is a good anything repellent! That's awful stuff! Tongue

It doesn't repel healthybratts Wink

My favorite mouthwash....mmmm...feel the burn. Grin

Maybe I would be more accurate to say it repels my hubby from me, anyway! Grin

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2008, 08:23:50 PM » by KristenA

What about when you get bit by a tick?
What are some things you can do to prevent Lymes?

I'm thinking IMMEDIATELY put on a poutlice/salve/whatever that has extreme drawing properties.

What about doing alternating between plantain poultice (draw out) and garlic poultice (kill).
Then following up with high doses of vitamin C and internal garlic.

Any ideas? Do you think this could prevent Lymes from taking hold?

There is supposed to be a Bulls Eye associated with a Lymes tick bite. But I am hearing more and more theories that you can get Lymes through mosquitos, ticks, breast milk, raw cows milk, and sexual transmission.

Lymes is B-A-D.

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2008, 08:35:09 PM » by Nickole

Quote from: KristenA on April 27, 2008, 08:23:50 PM

I am going to try that two step poultice idea. We have been using hydrogen peroxide and an aloe/comfrey salve. We live in the woods. Ticks abound.

We shaved the boy's head today. Much easier to find ticks that way. The oldest girl? Hopeless. Really dark super long thick hair. VERY hard to do a tick check under all that. Rebekah is right - the tiny seed/deer ticks fall from trees onto you. The kids are under trees pretty much the whole time they are outside. Lovely. We have already removed a few ticks, even one on the blond toddler's neck Angry

« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 08:40:55 PM by ~nickole~ »
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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2008, 08:40:25 PM » by mamaofangels

OKay I haven't done tons of research on this but do remember that when I was worried about it I found out that a tick has to bite and stay attached for 24 hrs. before it can transmit lyme disease. So when we are in tick country I religiously check for ticks every night! I dont' know about any of the rest though. But all your ideas Kristen sounded in the right direction to me.
Jenny

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Re: Lymes: Prevention
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2008, 08:46:22 PM » by Nickole

Quote from: mamaofangels on April 27, 2008, 08:40:25 PM

Same here, but it was also hotly debated on this thread.