soaking flour for bread

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soaking flour for bread
« on: August 09, 2006, 07:50:50 PM » by Ruby

I tried soaking my wheat flour in yogurt for 7 hours before making my bread. But I don't think things turned out the way they should've. I didn't add the yeast until after the 7 hours of course, but my bread didn't rise well. Is there a trick to soaking the flour? I have a few recipes that don't call for much liquid, so how do I soak those?

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 08:50:16 PM » by a_new_creation

Did you follow a certain recipe that included the soaking or did you just soak flour in yogurt? I have posted my recipe before that includes the soaking and I don't have problems w/ rising. Are you using freshly ground wheat flour? Hand kneading or mixer?

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Carla
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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 09:29:27 PM » by Ruby

I just soaked the flour in yogurt. I thought it could be done with any recipe. I am using wheat flour I grind at home. Also using a DLX mixer.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 02:29:17 PM » by a_new_creation

OK, I have a recipe you might want to try. I use a DLX mixer as well so it should come out for you. Here is a copy and paste from another thread I posted it to:

Here is my recipe which includes "soaking" in an acidic medium to neutralize phytates. I am copying it from my website. I have a Magic Mill (Electrolux) Assistent 2000 DLX, which is basically a big stand mixer. I have never made this by hand or in a bread machine, but it comes out wonderfully fluffy and light w/ my mixer. It makes 2 large (8.5" x 4.5") loaves. I have found the egg to be crucial; otherwise it falls half the time! I used to add gluten and lecithin but then I left them out one time and couldn't tell a difference so I don't use them anymore. That and I avoid soy now (lecithin).

Ingredients
5-6 cups freshly milled flour (hard red or hard white) (see Notes below)
1/3 cup olive oil
1 egg
1/3 cup honey
1 cup water
1 cup kefir (yogurt might work; never tried it)
1 scant tablespoon instant yeast
2 1/2 teaspoons sea salt

Instructions
In the DLX mixer, combine the water, kefir, olive oil, egg, honey, salt, and enough flour so the dough pulls away from the sides of the bowl (everything EXCEPT the yeast).
Mix well, cover, and allow to sit in a warm place for at least 7 hours.
Add the yeast and let the mixer knead the dough for 10-12 minutes.
Divide dough in half. On a lightly oiled surface, roll each half into a rectangle and then roll up, pinwheel style, along the shorter edge. Pinch along the seam to seal.
Place each loaf seam-side down in a large (1.5-2 lb.) loaf pan that has been greased with butter or olive oil on the bottom and sides. Or you can skip the oil and just line the loaf pan with sheets of parchment paper.
Let loaves rise in a warm place until the tops are 1-2 inches above the pan, about an hour or longer.
Bake in a preheated oven at 350 degrees for 28-30 minutes. Be careful not to bang the pans while putting them in the oven or the loaves may fall. Or, 25 minutes @ 325 degrees in a convection oven.
When they are done, take them out of the pans immediately to avoid soggy sides. You can use a spatula to loosen each side of the loaf from the pan, and they usually slide right out. If you use the parchment paper it comes out very easily.
Place on a cooling rack and cover with a dish towel while they cool. The towel helps keep the crust from getting too hard/thick.
When slightly cooled (about 20 minutes), place each loaf in a plastic bag. This helps retain softness and moisture.
If you wish to freeze the loaves, put them in the freezer immediately after placing them in the bags. When ready to use them, allow to thaw on the counter, not the microwave. This will only take a couple of hours, and they will still be moist and light.

Notes
You may have to use a little more than 5 cups of flour. You don't want wet dough, but you don't want it dry as a bone, either.
To make the honey slide out of the measuring cup easily, measure the oil first and then the honey (using the same measuring cup).
You want to let the dough sit for at least 7 hours but not much more than 12 hours else the end result will be sour. If you like sourdough bread, let it go longer.
If you add the yeast with the other ingredients, the bread will taste yeasty and nasty

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Carla
Wife to Doug ('00), Mama to Noah ('02), Claire ('04), and Chloe ('06)

Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 09:24:18 AM » by ArmyWife

I just had a thought when I pulled the leftover waffle mix out of the fridge this morning to bake. The batter was made with buttermilk, so would this (using batter that was made yesterday and leftovers refrigerated) be about the same thing as the flour being soaked beforehand, or would the other ingredients interfere in some way? I used what I think is whole wheat pastry flour.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 06:01:53 PM » by ArmyWife

Bump. Anybody know about this??

Quote from: ArmyWife on January 22, 2009, 09:24:18 AM

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 06:14:42 PM » by momofkings

I had wondered the same thing before. I spoke with the president of our local Weston Price Foundation and she said that isn't the same. The flour is to be soaked on the counter with the buttermilk. I'm not sure if other ingredients would necessarily interfere, I took it that it was the warm temperature with the buttermilk/flour that took care of the phytates.

I have, however, made blender muffins. I put the buttermilk and the whole grain in the blender, along with any other liquid ingredients, but NOT the eggs. Blend for 3 minutes and then let sit out on the counter at least 7 hours, or overnight. After the soaking time, you can add the eggs and whatever other ingredients. This is very easy and it's great for people who do not have a grain mill. You can still get the benefits of the whole grain. I originally learned about this method from Sue Gregg (she has a website).

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2009, 06:25:12 PM » by amandas5boys

I am wandering why you would soak the flour? does this take away bad acids or something?

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2009, 09:38:25 PM » by WI Cheesehead

A New Creation - I tried your recipe (off of another thread) with yogurt and Prairie Gold. it did not go well at all. I had to add close to 7 cups of flour to get the dough to pull away from the bowl. Then it wouldn't rise. It took 2 full hours to get it to almost the top of the pan. Then I cooked it for 28 minutes and it was dry on the outside (done) but really under done on the inside, plus 1 loaf had a hole. It tasted really yeasty too. I ended up cutting it up for croutons. My Fleischmann's yeast was fresh, but cold out of the fridge. (That's never affected my recipes b4.) Don't know what happened. In the other thread, I posted the bread (not a soak one) that seems to work the best for me, one I got from a friend. Sorry it didn't work out.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2009, 01:00:15 AM » by AllinHisTime

For muffins and pancakes, I have been using a dry cultured buttermilk powder. For one cup, I scoop 4 TBSP and add 1 cup of water, mix together and it's buttermilk. Would I be able to use this for soaking flour? Or has anyone used this?

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2009, 01:05:51 AM » by mykidsmom

Just as an FYI for those who would like to soak their grains (flour) but have not because of dairy allergies. Most people soak their grains with whey or yogurt. Soaking removes phytates but also makes the grains more digestable. We are unable to soak with anything dairy in this house and my ND told us the other day to soak with straight water. They still get the benefits of easier digestability even if it doesn't take care of phytates.

There's enough people here that have dairy allergies I thought this might be helpful.

patti

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2009, 09:39:18 PM » by seekingtruth

Quote from: mykidsmom on January 24, 2009, 01:05:51 AM

Vinegar (acidic medium) added 1T per cup of liquid will also break down phytates.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2009, 11:20:56 PM » by mykidsmom

Quote from: seekingtruth on January 24, 2009, 09:39:18 PM

Quote from: mykidsmom on January 24, 2009, 01:05:51 AM

Vinegar (acidic medium) added 1T per cup of liquid will also break down phytates.

Hey, thanks!! I didn't know that. I'll give it a try.

patti

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 01:57:32 AM » by momofkings

Hello,

Kimberlee asked me to post the soaked muffin recipe. I'm glad to-I adapted it from Sue Gregg's blender muffin recipe. This recipe makes 24 regular sized muffins, so if you don't want that many, just cut it in 1/2. You do need to have a good blender to make these. Also, you could use your grain mill to do this, the blender just adds convenience and makes it great for people who do not yet have a grain mill and want the benefits of the freshly ground grains.

Put into blender in order:
2 C buttermilk
1 C honey
1 C coconut oil
3 C whole grain berries (soft white, spelt, kamut, hard red, etc.)

Blend for 3 minutes.

Put cover on and let soak overnight or at least 7 hours on counter.

After soaking time add:
2 t salt
2 t baking soda
2 t baking powder
2 eggs

Blend until mixed. (I have a VitaMix and even with that, this part is a little hard. The batter is pretty thick at this point. I usually have to use a spoon and stir it around or dump it into a bowl to do the final mixing.)

Stir in any additions. Here are some that I use:
~For Blueberry/Millet:
2 C blueberries
2 t cinnamon
1/2 C millet

~For Banana:
4-6 mashed bananas
2 t cinnamon
1/2 C - 1 C walnuts

~For Carrot or Zucchini:
2 C grated carrot or zucchini
2 t cinnamon
1/2 c - 1 C oats

~ For Chocolate
6-7 T cocoa powder
1-2 C chocolate chips

~ For Apple
2 diced apples
2 t cinnamon
1 t nutmeg, optional

~ For Poppyseed
4 T poppy seeds
2 t vanilla

~ For Cranberry
2 C chopped fresh cranberries
2 t cinnamon
1/2-1 C chopped nuts

~For Pumpkin
2 C pureed pumpkin
2 t cinnamon
1/2 t nutmeg
1/4 t ground cloves

Put into prepared muffin pans and bake at 400 degrees for 20-25 minutes.
Mini muffins: Bake at 400 degrees for 10-15 minutes.
Loaves: bake at 350 degrees for 55 minutes or until tests done. (makes 2 loaves)

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2009, 10:31:48 AM » by kcb

Quote from: WI Cheesehead on January 23, 2009, 09:38:25 PM

Sue Gregg says that you have to add about 1/2 teaspoon baking soda after soaking. The commercial baker's yeast does not like acid, so you have to neutralize the soaking acid with the baking soda after soaking. I intend to try this one, but haven't yet. Her recipe is online (somewhere!).

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2009, 04:19:13 PM » by bettarcamping

This might sound a little silly, but does anyone know if I can soak my flour using beer? We just tried some we don't like and I'd like to find ways to use it up rather than wasting it. I was just going to get serious about making "soaked bread" this week.... but beer bread is about the only way I can think to use this stuff up! Any thoughts?

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2009, 10:47:09 PM » by Linda1958

I soak my flour sometimes. I take halfe the amount of flour the recipe calls for and soak it with filtered water and salt. The other half I soak in water and yeast and sourdough. The next day I combine the two doughs, add some more yeast and flour and let it ferment for at least 1 hour. Then I form the loaf, let it rise for at least 30 min , up to 45 min. or until the dough has doubled in size. I'll bake it at 450 F for 15 min , pour water into a pan in the oven and the for 25 min @ 400 F. It is wonderful bread. The soaking developes the gluten. The sourdough also, and the taste is just wonderful.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2009, 01:48:30 PM » by DHW

Quote from: bettarcamping on November 02, 2009, 04:19:13 PM

I am sure you could use beer. One of the ladies at church used to bring a quick bread made with beer and self-rising flour. It was good. Kind of a cross between yeast bread and biscuits.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2009, 05:01:51 PM » by petrimama

I just don't understand this concept at all. I haven't read the book, but I have read this thread and it just doesn't seem to make sense. I want to try the vinegar soak, but wouldn't soaking the flour turn it into paste? Does it need to be rinsed afterward or just used as it is? (I don't have any idea how rinsing would be accomplished.) Can this be used for any recipe? What adjustments need to be made to the recipe? How does it affect the final bread product? Thanks. ~L

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2009, 08:17:03 PM » by ManyWeavers

For soaked bread you simply take your flour, an acidic such as buttermilk, kefir or yogurt (which breaks down the phytic acid in the flour) and maybe some melted butter, depending on your recipe. You mix and let it sit for 12-24 hours and then add your yeast, salt and honey like a regular bread recipe. Knead and finish like normal. Clear as mud? Huh

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2009, 06:22:54 AM » by petrimama

So, for a recipe with 4 cups of flour, 1 1/4 cups of water how much liquid would I need to add for the soak? Would I then subtract that amount from my usual water? ~L

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2009, 09:47:48 PM » by mommie

Sooo....you soak after you grind your grain, NOT before?!

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2009, 07:38:28 AM » by Kitty

Yes.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2009, 09:19:26 AM » by Blue Rose

Quote from: petrimama on November 08, 2009, 06:22:54 AM

So, for a recipe with 4 cups of flour, 1 1/4 cups of water how much liquid would I need to add for the soak? Would I then subtract that amount from my usual water? ~L

I use the recipe in Nourishing Traditions which calls for 4 cups of flour. To soak it, you warm 1-1 1/2 cups of buttermilk and 1/2 cup of butter (I use coconut oil). Pour the warm buttermilk and oil in with your 4 cups of flour and mix till it makes a dough-like consistency. Then, the next morning, you add your yeast (I use instant), salt, 1 more cup of flour, 1/4 cup of warm water with 2 T of honey or molasses stirred in (this is where you activate your yeast if you are not using instant) and then add 1/2 tsp of baking soda to the water mixture, stir till it bubbles and dump it in with the soaked flour. Mix/knead for about 10 mins. Let raise for 2 hours, punch down and shape into loaves, let rise in pans to desired height (about 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours), place risen loaves into cold oven, turn on to 350 and set timer for 30 mins. Mine comes out about perfect every time. HTH

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2009, 12:40:01 PM » by petrimama

Thank you. That's very helpful. I still have more questions, though. (Am I driving you crazy yet?) First, why is one cup of flour not soaked? Is there a purpose for that? Or is it just to get the right consistency for the soaking, which would need to be more liquidy than the actual dough?
Second, what is the purpose of the baking soda? Could it be omitted?
Third, can I use my favorite recipe and just adjust it to this method?
Thanks so much for all of the explanations. I really am learning from your experiences! ~L

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2009, 09:51:35 PM » by Linda1958

Yes, I grind the grain and soak the flour in water, the way I explained. I think I forgot to mention I use sourdough also. Anyway, the bread turns out superb in taste and the crumb is wonderful. Grin

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2009, 11:21:48 PM » by petrimama

Does this only work for sourdough? ~L

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2009, 06:27:03 AM » by ~esposita~

Quote from: petrimama on November 09, 2009, 12:40:01 PM

First, why is one cup of flour not soaked?

I think your reasoning is sound: Or is it just to get the right consistency for the soaking, which would need to be more liquidy than the actual dough? It also helps in the kneading process - getting the right end consistency.

Quote from: petrimama on November 09, 2009, 12:40:01 PM

Second, what is the purpose of the baking soda? Could it be omitted?

BS is another leavening agent that works well with acidic ingredients. I'd say, yes, it can be omitted, which leads to your next question:

Quote from: petrimama on November 09, 2009, 12:40:01 PM

Third, can I use my favorite recipe and just adjust it to this method?

Sure! It can't hurt to try!

Have fun!

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2009, 06:29:06 AM » by ~esposita~

Quote from: petrimama on November 10, 2009, 11:21:48 PM

Does this only work for sourdough? ~L

By soaking the four you end up with a "pseudo-sourdough" - kind of a quick method or a combo of sourdough and yeast bread.

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Re: soaking flour for bread
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2009, 11:12:36 PM » by Linda1958

Quote from: petrimama on November 10, 2009, 11:21:48 PM

Does this only work for sourdough? ~L

No, it works without sourdough also. I prefer sourdough because it is better for my digestive system / fermented food in general.
I have a page website wheatandsourdough.com with links to nutritional information. A one-stop-info page so to speak.

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