GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2008, 07:57:44 PM » by Linguist77

Patti,

Sorry I'm seeing this so late. I was very afraid to do the GAPS diet because GF grains have also been a staple for my boys and me. I finally decided, after many questions to the GAPShelp Yahoo group, to just take the plunge. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? And I figured I could also just quit if it wasn't working.

We had several days of angry fit-throwing and weeping, plus lethargy, due to yeast. (So yeah, buckle your seatbelts if you decide to start on this!) Shocked

They may have lost some weight because they were refusing to eat at first, but when I started blending the soups, they began eating. Now that we're a month and a half into the diet, they've gained a little weight and they all look healthier. They feel heavier than they weigh on the scale, too. (Incidentally, my 4yo twins were only about 27 lbs. at age 3. They were preemies, too. Now they're at maybe 33 lbs, but DH and I are short people, so our kids are also on the small side.) Our 7yo has gained 2 lbs. and more height since starting the diet.

As far as their specific food allergies, we do avoid things in the intro diet that they can't handle, like nut flours and apples. They have anaphylaxis to those things and may never tolerate them, or they may have to wait many years before they can try those. It's not worth the risk for us!

But they seem to have overcome their allergies to winter squash and eggs, although I feel that I should still limit eggs. They have cycles of die-off that are hard to distinguish from food reactions. We're going to have to stay on the intro much longer than most people. Meaning, I will continue the soups 3x/day and cautiously introduce things. They cannot have raw carrots, but cooked carrots don't seem to bother them, whereas they would have before. I've given them some cooked berries and those seem fine (not so before the diet).

I would definitely recommend getting the book and joining the Yahoo group mentioned above.

Now I have to go make some more ... SOUP!

HTH,
Laura

Quote from: mykidsmom on November 21, 2008, 11:54:56 PM

Laura,

I'm curious, since your kids have food allergies also, how did you deal with them and this diet? One thing I keep wondering about is a lot of what she says to eat (I haven't read the book yet, just her website) is stuff my son is allergic to and stuff she says to stay away from (rice) is a staple for him since he can't have any grains. What did you do? Did your sons react? If Luke gets anything he's allergic to he's gone for a full day. I mean almost unable to walk from exhaustion, headaches, dizzy, etc. So I fear giving him anything he's allergic to. Not to mention hives and eczema. What did you do?

My son doesn't have autism, but his allergies have reached the autoimmune stage so I'm hoping this book will enlighten me more.

patti

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Laura in Arizona

www.theylivedintents.com

M, age 4: "I'm a good tornado that looks like a frog!"

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2008, 11:32:45 PM » by mykidsmom

Laura,

Thank you for your experience with this. I am still waiting for my book. Waiting........waiting..........waiting. I was hoping to have it before we fly to see a DAN doctor this week. Undecided

I have read her website and followed the yahoo group for a few days and it seems very confusing to me. I'm assuming that the book will clear a lot up for me. I find the yahoo group very confusing in its format as you can't just click on a topic and see all the responses to that topic. Unless I'm doing something wrong..... Undecided

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once I get through the book. Right now, I'm giving my son enzymes with every meal and I'm noticing he seems to be doing much better. Clearly, he is not digesting his food very well. So that's a start.

patti

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2008, 05:12:41 PM » by Linguist77

Patti,

You can have the messages sent to your regular email. I hate trying to read Yahoo group messages in a browser. It seems that group is really hopping all of a sudden, and it's a challenge to keep up with it!

We were doing the enzyme thing for a bit, but it didn't do nearly enough. The start of the diet was difficult with die-off and tummy aches and much whining, but now the boys are slurping down their soup (hint: blend the soups!) and begging for more. I even made a broccoli and liver soup today that I thought nobody would eat, myself included. They liked it better than most other soups and each drank 3 or 4 big cups! I was even able to drink it, and I usually have a hard time getting liver down. Our tastes are changing, and our digestion is improving every day! I don't even give them enzymes, although I could if I thought they needed it. They may once we introduce some other new foods.

I have struggled so much with hypoglycemia, adrenal problems, celiac, constant illness, etc. Now the hypoglycemia is all gone, I haven't been getting sick, and my adrenals are really starting to heal (with the help of glandulars). Now I just need to figure out how much iodine I need to stop my hair from falling out, LOL.

Can you tell I'm trying to talk you into starting the diet? Grin

I think it's even more important than chelation, which we've put on hold for the time being.

A few years ago, Nourishing Traditions was a new thing and hardly anyone was doing it. Now it seems to be widespread. I think the same will happen with GAPS.

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Laura in Arizona

www.theylivedintents.com

M, age 4: "I'm a good tornado that looks like a frog!"

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2008, 05:29:21 PM » by mykidsmom

Thanks, Laura. I do want to do this diet. I'm still waiting for my book......... hint hint Mr. Ebay man! I've written to the guy and haven't heard back. I may have to take another avenue with ebay.

That said, I was hoping to have the book for our appt. with the DAN doc this Friday. Oh well. We fly out tomorrow. We'll see what happens. Today we got an Epi Pen as our son has started having difficulty breathing after eating some things (we eliminate those we know about). Undecided

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For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed unto him against that day.

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2008, 09:12:33 AM » by boysmama

I wanted to say that this thread has been helpful for us. We have done something very similar; actually eat this way most of the time for the last two years or so. It helped my husband alot.
We had never done raw egg. After reading this and a few other items we started having fresh, raw eggs (from our pasture, soy/corn free chickens) in raw goat milk kefir, honey, cinnamon, berry smoothies. I think we did a week with this only for breakfast and then slowly added in cooked eggs for variation. The progress dh has seen is awesome! Even I can feel the difference in how this drink for breakfast is easy to digest -never heavy on the stomach- and yet is filling and provides energy all the way until lunch.

We are starting homemade wheat products yet again. Undecided

We'll see how it goes.

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2008, 03:35:55 PM » by Linguist77

*hugs*

We've been carrying Epi Pens for years. It's a good idea if the allergies are that bad. Just try to keep the things from getting frozen or heated too much. You do get used to it.

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Laura in Arizona

www.theylivedintents.com

M, age 4: "I'm a good tornado that looks like a frog!"

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2008, 11:23:28 PM » by mamaoffour

That's so awesome that everyone who is trying the diet seems to have positive stories. I really hope this diet can completely heal my son's damaged gut, so far it looks very promising.

My son is changing almost everyday. He is becoming more and more affectionate each day, this has never been typical for him. He is also becoming more and more social and acting more appropriate in social situations. I pray this will continue. Even when he gets something like peanut butter or split peas that he normally reacts to his reactions are less noticable than they used to be. I can just give him a charcoal pill or an epsom salt bath and the reaction is less severe. I hope he can one day drop the "Aspie" diagnosis he was given back in June. Everyday is a new stride for us, some days are horrible(detox days) and some are so good that we can't even tell he is on the autism spectrum. If anyone out there is looking for something to help their autistic child, this is the diet. I had tried everything and nothing has proved to be this helpful accept for the GAPS Diet. What a God sent for us!!

Misty

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2008, 08:17:32 PM » by mykidsmom

We are back from PDX and visting with the ND there that specializes in gastro issues. All I can say is, "Wow!" Grin

First off, after getting my son's history he was able to quickly establish how we got to where we are. We do not have heavy metal issues nor do we have a candida issue (which surprises me). What we ended up with is a child that has an overgrowth of two major bacterias in his gut (a pneumonia bacteria and some other one I'm not familiar with). They have overtaken his gut. My son has zero lactobacillus in his gut which is why the other bacterias were able to take over so easily. DS is also unable to absorb ANY fats at all. His digestion is fine, his absorption is awful. He put my son on some interesting things which are intended to kill the two bacterias and repopulate with the good stuff. The probiotic he is on has (get ready for this) - 900,000,000 critters in it. Shocked

I think the PB-8 has like 13 million. So this new probiotic has close to a trillion bacteria guys in it (my brain is blanking on the term - it's been a busy week). And one pays for that! It's $75 for two weeks worth of that probiotic. Yeeks. He should only need to be on it for a few months though.

The interesting thing is my son had eczema starting up the back of his legs again by the time we got to the docs office. I gave DS two doses of the new supps/herbs and within 24hrs the eczema on his legs is GONE. I didn't have any Burts Bees with me or anything so I didn't treat it with anything. Also, DS has horribly dry lips caused by not absorbing any oils. They are always cracked and bleeding. Today his lips are almost perfect. Unbelieveable! This doc told me that within a week my boy would be eating everything he has a "low" reaction to with no reaction at all. After what I've seen in 24hrs hours, I believe him.

The ND wasn't familiar with GAPS but was going to look it up for me. I gave him the basics and he thought it was fine. While we have finally found out what's wrong with my son (and there are more tests to come to make sure we've caught everything), we are still going to use the GAPS for the whole family for at least 6 months. There are enough of us with mild food allergies that would probably benefit.

Still waiting for my book. Found out it is coming from England so will take longer.

patti

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2008, 11:58:44 PM » by Whiterock

Wow, Patti! That is awsome!

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2008, 01:13:11 AM » by firecattx

I'm about ready to ditch this diet Sad

My 3yo has been sick (upper respiratory - gets it every few weeks), whiny, constantly crying since we started GAPS. He has lost a pound which he can't afford to lose - he's tiny at 27lbs. My other kids/husband are miserable on the diet and I am spending hours in the kitchen trying to feed 8 people this way. Maybe this wasn't such a good idea. I haven't seen any improvements since we started (two weeks ago). His poop is still mushy even though we stayed strictly on intro stage 1 for 3 days! I'm just so tired of trying to solve the mystery of his frequent illnesses, food allergies, whiny behavior etc. I so hoped that this was the answer.....

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2008, 09:06:41 AM » by boysmama

firecattx, from your descriptions it sounds like you are moving to quickly through the stages. I would guess from the severity of symptoms that your 3 year old may need to be on stage one for 1 week or longer. To see results with GAPS you have to wait to move on until each patient is ready. It is similar to picking a scab off. Doing so increases the time required to heal. You have to wait for the gut to heal to stay healed when introducing a new and harder to digest food. If eggs are one of the allergens it maybe a LONG time before you can move beyond stage 1. I know (before we heard of GAPS) dh was on something similar to intro 1 for 2 weeks before he was ready for anything more. I'm sorry I don't have an "easier" answer. Hang in there and pray for patience and wisdom. Kiss

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2008, 10:06:00 AM » by DHW

Patti, how did the ND determine your ds's diagnosis? Was it through lab work or other diagnostic tools? I am very curious to hear how he made his diagnosis. How is ds doing so far? Can you tell us the name of the probiotic?

Time and again I have noticed how all the reasonable measures taken have not been effective because the cause had not been clearly defined. It sometimes takes a lot of sleuthing to pinpoint the underlying problem that multiple symptoms cascade from.

I am grateful and glad that you have found at least part of your answer.

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2008, 12:33:54 PM » by WellTellMommy

What about this causes the wetting, die-off ?
What does an intro weeks menu look like?
Laura, are you thinking this diet helped your adrenals also?
I'm curious about hiatal hernia it looks as though it would help that too.?

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Sherri

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2008, 12:37:54 PM » by WellTellMommy

Quote from: WellTellMommy on December 09, 2008, 12:33:54 PM

OK, I found this Thank you WR good thread.
http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,21506.0.html

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Sherri

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2008, 01:06:04 PM » by mykidsmom

Quote from: DHW on December 09, 2008, 10:06:00 AM

I have to beg for patience. Grin

I got home from being out of town with my son and had company the same day for 4 days so I'm just now getting a chance to answer some questions. And I won't even be doing it in this post! Wink

I've had several PM's with really specific questions about what was found with my son and they are excellent questions so I thought answering them in this thread would be better then in PM's. That way everyone gets the benefit the information. But's it's in depth and will take me some time to type out so if y'all can wait maybe until this evening then I will try to put it altogether for you. I believe, without a doubt, that without an actual cause in hand that much of what we do is in the dark. And while diagnosis can be expensive in some respects, it's cheaper then any doctor and what is our children's lives worth to us? So, that said, I will try and gets costs, lab companies, bacteria information, etc. on here by late (I mean it will be late!) tonight. If not, tomorrow.

As of today, (day 4 1/2 of treatment), my son is now eating everything we have tried so far that he suddenly became allergic to in the last six months. No reactions at all. Grin

He feels good and is happy again. He has had one major die off episode which I will explain later. He is still GF and dairy free for the time being. We are only reintroducing foods that allergies started for in the past 6 months right now.

God bless,

patti

« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 11:59:15 PM by mykidsmom »
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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2008, 01:31:25 PM » by WellTellMommy

Quote from: mamaoffour on October 30, 2008, 02:33:26 PM

I thought this might be helpful for some. This is a list of recommended foods and foods that aren't allowed while on the GAPS Diet:

THE GAPS DIET

Natural Digestive Healing for Gut and Psychology Syndrome
The DietTHE DIET

Are all of these the "first foods", if not could someone list them for stage one?
I find it odd to see pork and alcoholic beverages I would think these to be upsetting to the gut.

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Sherri

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2008, 12:50:20 AM » by mykidsmom

Okay - here I go. I will try to cover everything I can for those of you who are interested in testing, seeking the cause, etc. for your kid's tummy/allergy troubles.

I am going to skip the history of my son's allergies because I think I've posted enough of it that many of you already know it. At the point before we went to this ND gastro specialist my son had a very limited diet. He was allergic to nearly everything and was beginning to get anaphylactic. Daily we did not know if he would have an allergy to something he ate the day before.

We saw Dr. Rob Dramov in Tigard, Oregon. Dr. Dramov is a naturepath that loves microbiology and therefore got interested in the gut, how it works, issues of the gut, etc. The stomach/digestive/gut is THE place in the body where microbiology is used the most. Dr. Dramov is natural in every way but he will use medical tests to help him determine what is wrong. He does not hit and miss. He finds the cause and goes after it, not the symptoms. I have seen 3 ND's in 3yrs and I discovered after meeting this guy that just like doctors, there is a HUGE difference in ND's. One of the first things I noted is that his office looks like a regular doctor's office. Every ND I've been to their office looks like a shrinks office with supplements on the walls. This guy does full examines, etc. He is family practice so he does all level of care including well baby checks, etc. etc. He is also a DAN doctor (defeat autism now= DAN). He did a full physical on my son as well while we were there.

Prior to seeing Dr. Dramov we had a stool test done by Genova Diagnostics. It was a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis. For us, this test ended up showing us what the majority of my DS's issues were. He has good digestion, but no abosorption of fats AT ALL. His gut is also overrun by two bacterias. Hafnia alvei and Klebsiella pneumoniae. By son had NO lactobacillus despite daily probiotics. They couldn't even grow the stuff in his stool which is very bad.

After a taking a comprehensive history of my son Dr. Dramov was able to very quickly tell me what happened to get us to where we are today. From birth to 9 months my DS had an ear infection in one ear and was on antibiotics for nearly 9 months straight. At that time we demanded an ear tube be put in place and he never had trouble again. But the damage from the abx's (antibiotics) was done. On top of that he was a soy formula fed baby because he could not have cow's milk formula. That caused more gut damage (Dramov said soy is very damaging internally). When we gave my DS the MMR shot (before I knew about vaccines) it sent his body over the edge and he began developing allergies. It is likely the bacteria has been there since his first round of abxs and has continued to grow until it literally has taken over his entire gut.

These two bacterias were tested against abxs for sensitivity. They were resistant to the normal abxs and only sensitive to cipro and sulfa drugs. This doc does not do abxs unless dire and necessary. The bacteris were then tested against natural substances and was found to be sensitive to berberine, oregano, plant tannins, and uva ursi.

So the first round of fixes is my son is on a probiotic called VSL 3. It is manufactured by Sigma Tau Pharmaceuticals. It is VERY potent. I do not know if it's available outside of an MD or ND. This is to repopulate my DS's gut while we kill off the bacteria. He is on berberine to kill the bacteria. He is on powdered quercetin to combat and relieve the allergies and on Thorne's bio-digest with ox bile to help his body begin absorbing fats.

We took my DS off of all oils (including CLO) for the time being. Probably at least several months. At that time we will slowly add them back in.

After 2 doses of these four things by son's eczema (which was mild compared to previous times) was gone. Some slight dry skin remained that simply needed a good lotion. After 4 doses he had a MAJOR die off. This consisted of the WORST gas you ever smelled Tongue

. After that the diahrrea (sp?) hit hard. Let's just say it was as bad as the gas. Interestingly, it was the same color as the powdered quercetin (bright yellow- very staining). I chatted with a nurse from church (that leans natural) and she said bacterial die off is the stinkiest, messiest thing there is. So, we knew we had die off going on. At that point we continued on with the protocol. On day 3 we started added substances back into his diet that he became allergic to this past 6 months. Prior to that he was allergic to gluten and dairy. These others that showed up we knew had to be "pseudo" allergies. On Day 1, we used raw cane sugar in something. No reaction. Day 2 we added in lemon juice (all citrus was an issue). No reaction. Just those two substances have opened up his diet a lot because even things like the Envirokid GF granola bars have evaporated cane juice in them. Nearly ALL GF stuff does. So that helped a ton. We use lemon juice in our cooking a lot so that reopened a lot of stuff again. We started on some of the veggies he was having issues with. No reaction. So clearly, we are seeing healing beginnning. Dr. Dramov said it would take about 5 days for us to start seeing his allergies disappear. We saw it on day 3. I was antsy to try stuff so we did it slowly. About every 3rd day right now we will add back in some of the more allergenic items (except gluten and dairy because those were his original allergies). We will stay on this protocol for several months and then re-do the stool test to see where the bacterias are at, how his fat absorption is, and if he has good bacteria again. We'll adjust the protocol from there.

On Friday we will have some more blood work run as this doctor wants to make sure he's got everything that is the cause. So here's the list:

complete metabolic panel

CBC with differential

IGE serum (shows level of inflammation caused by the allergies)

celiac comprehensive panel (just to make sure)

lipid panel (he'll be high or low because of no absorption)

iron/TIBC (don't know what this is), ferritin (this is iron also)

TSH, free T3 and free T4 (thyroid)

ANA screen with reflex (autoimmune markers and if positive, what are they)

vit. D

Measles IGG/IGM titers

These tests will rule out or confirm other possible issues. The ones he is most interested in is the autoimmune markers (because I have an autoimmune disease) and the measles titer. He said something about the live bacteria from the measles vaccine can actually populate in the gut and the person is figthing the measles in their gut. I do not understand this and will be asking further for him to explain it clearly to me. He said it is common in autistic children. He also told me to have my other two children tested for this one because they were both given the MMR too.
Sad

Any changes we need to make based on these results I will post later. We will probably be on the current protocol for 3-4 months.

The trip to Portland cost us $850 after flights, car, etc. I had a free place to stay. The office visit with all the supplements (the probiotic is expensive) was $450. The actual office call was $190 and he discounts 25% if you are self pay. We are, so we got discounted. The stool test was $201. All of the blood work we're having run on Friday will probably run between $500 and $1000. I'm not real clear on that. So when all is said and done, we're looking at $2K. That's a lot of money. But what we've spent on special foods, supplements shooting in the dark trying to fix him, etc. this seems like not much. If we had an MD gastro look at him it would have cost us $2K just for them to scope him and they wouldn't have found any of this. So for us, it is worth this. It's not cheap. But he is healing very quickly as a result.

So here's my take. I am more convinced then ever after this appt. that we cannot take one person's experience and extrapolate it to our own. That's what we had been trying to do with our DS to heal his body. Every person is different, their bodies are different, and the experiences that got them to where they are today are different. Their diagnosis will be different. I believe more then ever, it is not worth someone taking my DS's protocol and trying to use it to heal their kid's because they may not have the same bacterias, etc. But I also believe if you really want to heal your sick one, you've got to have someone find this testing info out and give direction on what to take.

I found this guy through my best friend. She found him by calling the naturpathic association in her state and asking them if they knew of an ND that specialized in gastro issues. So you could try that first. Or you could call this guy and ask if he knows of anyone in your state or how you could find someone that does what he does, or you could just go see him. Grin

He is also a christian which is icing on the cake.

After watching my son this past few days and his improvement, I wish all of you could go see this guy with your kids/spouses/etc. He is incredible. Our first appt. lasted 2 hrs (no rush there!) and appts. from now on we'll be doing by phone (they are $90 for a half hour). So we only had to travel this once. And we really won't need to chat too often (maybe once every two months or so).

I will still be reading the GAPS book (when it gets here!) and we are still considering doing it as a family but some of that will really depend on how DS does. If he continues to get better and better we may forgo it for awhile. We'll see. I described it to Dramov and he said it sounded like it would be a good diet. He is also going to research it for his own info.

I hope I was able to answer your questions. If I missed something from the PM's I received please feel free to ask.

God bless,

patti

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2008, 01:36:55 PM » by mauimom

Quote from: mykidsmom on December 10, 2008, 12:50:20 AM

So here's my take. I am more convinced then ever after this appt. that we cannot take one person's experience and extrapolate it to our own. That's what we had been trying to do with our DS to heal his body. Every person is different, their bodies are different, and the experiences that got them to where they are today are different. Their diagnosis will be different. I believe more then ever, it is not worth someone taking my DS's protocol and trying to use it to heal their kid's because they may not have the same bacterias, etc. But I also believe if you really want to heal your sick one, you've got to have someone find this testing info out and give direction on what to take.

Patti,

I totally agree with you on this. We have been going to an ND for years for my autoimmune issues and you really can't compare cases. Every one has different backgrounds that contribute greatly to our health. What caused my graves disease is not what caused my neighbors graves disease.
As expensive as NDs can be, it is really worthwhile to find a good one and sacrifice for good health. When we were in the thick of spending thousands of $'s we didn't have, my dh would always say, "You can't put a price on health." If you have money in the bank, but are sick in bed, what good does the money do you or your family. The Lord will provide.
My soapbox - sorry HB for getting off topic. Embarrassed

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2008, 07:28:08 AM » by mamaoffour

Patti,

What an amazing journey you have been on!! That's awesome that you have a doctor who can actually get to the bottom of things and not treat just the symptoms. I agree with you, we are all chemically different and have different bacterias that may or may not be causing symptoms. 80% of our immune system is in our gut, so if we don't address our guts then we won't see healing. I'm so happy for you!! Your son sounds alot like mine, the citrus allergies, sugar allergies, and the gluten and dairy problems. 2,000 isn't alot when you consider you just found out all the sources of your son's problems. Go mama!! We are planning on seeing a DAN Dr. that is close to us soon. I know that is the only way to find the real answers to my son's problems. In the meantime, I will continue to implement the GAPS Diet for my son, it is really working for us.

Please keep us updated. This is so interesting to me. Can you post your test results on the Autism tests thread for me? Alot of these tests you are talking about are tests that they run on autistic children. I would love to compare results.

By the way, my son's measles titers were elevated on the IGg part. I think the measles virus has taken up residency in my son's gut as well.

Praise God for your son's healing!! HUGS!

Misty

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"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it(Prov. 22:6).

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2008, 01:36:58 PM » by WellTellMommy

Quote from: mamaoffour on December 11, 2008, 07:28:08 AM

80% of our immune system is in our gut, so if we don't address our guts then we won't see healing.

OK, so is the Gaps diet the best way to heal the gut, or is there more? w/o $2k and DANS DR.'s because at the moment that is not possible.

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DD 5yo---Mom, I think we should take a camera with us when we go to Heaven, it'll be so beautiful up there.

Sherri

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2008, 02:50:38 PM » by boysmama

Quote from: WellTellMommy on December 11, 2008, 01:36:58 PM

Quote from: mamaoffour on December 11, 2008, 07:28:08 AM

80% of our immune system is in our gut, so if we don't address our guts then we won't see healing.

OK, so is the Gaps diet the best way to heal the gut, or is there more? w/o $2k and DANS DR.'s because at the moment that is not possible.

I know exactly what you mean. We would LOVE to do the tests and even have a good natural medicine doctor we work with as we can... So if you can do the doc/tests/ and personalized supplements go for it! but if not I have spent the last 4 years looking for common denominators in success stories...

Gaps is probably the BEST most comprehensive diet plan I have come across that uses foods to heal the gut. Many other diets are good, but GAPS puts them all together. I still have not been able to read the book so I am going by what has been posted here and what I can find online. GAPS though is pretty specific. You have to use free range, organic, raw foods to get optimal results.
For example, egg yolks from free range, pastured chickens are used -the omega 3s are going to be MUCH higher than a grocery store or even small farm, soy/corn fed, contained housing chicken egg. You need to have the homemade raw saurkraut, not canned, raw milk kefir cultured from the complex grains, not the simpler powdered culture available in stores based on homogenized milk. The raw milk cultured with grains is going to be a stronger probiotic. Hopefully you can get milk that is not produced on GM grains that might carry genetic factors that hinder true healing...You also have to be consistent and not advance faster than the healing process just like is spelled out in the diet....See what I mean by saying that this is probably the most comprehensive plan I've found?

It is alot of work because you basically are going to have to do every scratch of work yourself. None of it is going to come out of a bottle or get picked up at the store for tonight's dinner. Surprisingly it is not that expensive once you commit to it and find sources for grass fed/free range meat, milk, and eggs. It's just a commitment....

Other than a diet similar to GAPS or if we can't follow the diet to the letter we have found that it helps to add supplements such as digestive enzymes, hydrocholric acid, a whole food vitamin/superfood/greenfood, a muti whole food mineral, and cod liver oil/fish oil/ EFAs, especially omega 3s. Those are probably the top supplements.

Garlic and oregano oil must be the two top over the counter type stuff that is most effective on parasitical infections in the gut the prevent healing. There are few to no bacteria, viruses, parasites that are immune to a careful regime of those two or both.

Does this help?

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2008, 05:06:03 PM » by WellTellMommy

Greatly, Thank you!

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DD 5yo---Mom, I think we should take a camera with us when we go to Heaven, it'll be so beautiful up there.

Sherri

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2008, 05:37:09 PM » by mykidsmom

I can see great merit in doing everything one can when going to a good ND and running the tests is not possible but I think long term healing is held out if you're missing pieces of the puzzle. ie. We had no idea my son could have a gut full of bacteria like he has. Nor did I know that the good probiotic I was giving him was basically worthless as it was being used by the bad bacteria to grow. I kept trying to give him fats with digestive enzymes only to find out that the enzymes couldn't help him absorb what he needed and that was the fats. He was getting sicker with each of the times I tried to feed him fat.

I guess I say all that to say that in trying to help our little ones we can actually hurt them if we don't know what's wrong. Even if someone can't afford the supplements that an ND recommends, if you know what's wrong you can find your own way to tackle it.

If I had to choose one test that I think is invaluable in figuring out what's going on it would be the stool test. It's $200 but they send you a full report that explains what the results mean and I think it would give most of you a good start on actually what is wrong with your kids/hubs, etc.

Just my thoughts........

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For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed unto him against that day.

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2008, 07:30:04 PM » by Pastorswife2B

Patti,

I'm so excited for you and getting another piece of the puzzle with your son!

I have a few questions for when you have a moment to answer Kiss

. My situation is different from yours in that we do not have one person in the family with sever problems, just my children (all three out of the womb), have mainly a very reactive dairy allergy and their father used to have a sensativity to lactose which we have pretty much solved with adding probiotics to the diet. I think there are some other allergens in the preservative/chemical food additive department but I haven't pinned them down.

Any way I explain all this to ask Does the doctor give you hope that by getting rid of this invasive bacteria that your son will eventually be able to elliminate his Dairy and Gluten allergy?

Does he talk about needing to do any diet changes or lifestyle changes to heal the damage done by the bacteria or does he pretty much believe that the probiotic will do all the healing?

I believe you also said that other members of your family have some minor food intollerances, have you talked to the doc about that and if he thinks they also have some kind of gut overgrowth issue or if minor and major allergy issues are qualitatively different in this sense?

Do you feel interrogated yet? Wink

if you have a moment I would love your input on this and again so excited for your family in making this major step forward!

-Heather

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2008, 12:08:56 PM » by boysmama

Patti,
So do you think that the GAPS diet specifically could cause harm? For instance in the case of the probiotic supplement actually increasing your son's problem. If you had been using the diet alone with the absolute avoidance of sugars and most starches and then slow introduction of food sourced probiotics do you think it would have caused harm?

I agree that supplements can cause harm. Even most enzyme supplements are not complete and if they aren't what you need they can further imbalance the body. I guess I should clarify that you need a comprehensive enzyme+ bile + hydrochloric acid+ a broad spectrum probiotic including HSOs to really cover digestive issues. What we were told is to use all of these together. A good whole food multivit, multimin or green food or extra fats shouldn't cause harm anymore than a good diet, right?
To me this is the wonder of GAPS. If you start at the beginning you will see what works and what doesn't as you advance through the program. It breaks things up so that you can find the clues to diagnose problem areas. And part of the program is watching the poo. Tongue

If you are going to use GAPS that's part of it. Shocked

I totally agree that if you can afford the tests you should do them. We did as many tests as we could and what supplements we could. Locally I recommend that folks go to the natural medicine doc if the can. With all the tests you can certainly get to the root of the issue much faster. Thankfully our doc has been very understanding and has prioritized with us to stay within budget. I am so glad every time someone can afford that resource, but if a family is struggling to keep ahead with essentials.... Undecided

Do you think following the specific GAPS protocol can harm? Just to clarify, GAPS in its entirety. I certainly want to think this through so that I am not passing out harmful info.

Thanks for you time. I am so glad you have some answers with your son. I know how hard you have worked to get this figured out! Kiss

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2008, 01:57:33 PM » by hi_itsgwen

Quote from: mykidsmom on December 11, 2008, 05:37:09 PM

I think she's saying that what was causing him harm was not being able to digest fats (even when given with the correct enzymes). I don't think she was ensenuating that GAPS can be harmful, but it wasn't addressing the whole picture in the case of his problem with the bacteria overgrowth. I think she's saying that the bacteria was feeding on the probiotic. I thought of it like a small group of paratroupers landing in the middle of the enemy war camp in full daylight...not much chance of survival for the good guys.

It takes a balanced colony of digestive organisms to get a full spectrum of nutrients out of food. Since there were basically only two bacteria in there, then only selective nutrients were being broken down in his digestive tract...so it wasn't so much about the quality of the foods being given.

I don't know if this is on target, but what I'm getting from this is that GAPS deals with the healing of the organ (the actual tissues), but Patti is excited to find a solution to the problem of a badly imbalanced gut colony. Beating back the dominant strains of bacteria (with targeted natural antibiotics) while adding in an army of good guys to repopulate is what is going to make the long term difference...not only allowing the gut to heal, but allowing the wholesome foods to be fully broken down and utilized by his little body.

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2008, 02:11:44 PM » by mykidsmom

I don't have a lot of time to respond right now but I have clearly confused some folks and I'm sorry for doing that. Embarrassed

I think GAPS is totally appropriate in it's entirety. I was not trying to insenuate that anyone is harming their kid by doing it or anything else. I was just trying to say that sometimes as a parent we think we're helping when we end up hurting (as was our case). I think the basics of a good diet (GAPS, nourishing traditions, etc) is absolutely necessary but be careful with what supplements you add unless you are absolutely sure of their need. Does that make sense? For example - we were giving our DS a whole food multi vit. called Juice Plus. It ended up being very harmful to him. But it's whole food - it should be good right? Not in our case.

I apologize for the confusion. As for the testing, I just wanted folks to know it is worth it if you have the funds to do it. A lot of times testing seems like a waste of money (at least to me) with MD's and I wanted everyone to know that this is NOT a waste of money. It's also worth trying to put even small amounts away, when possible, towards that purpose.

I gotta jet. I will answer the rest later.

patti

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For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed unto him against that day.

Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2008, 02:35:25 PM » by boysmama

Thanks, that clears it up for me!

I was concerned that you were saying even a diet introducing probiotic foods, higher in fats like butter, coconut oil than the SAD, etc should not be used.
Great points made about supplements or anything that is a fraction of it's original form really. Even if some are better than others or herbs are better then drugs they are never work the same as similar actions in foods. Magnifies both the potential for good or bad.

Another thing that might help in the case of limited finances, if you have insurance, is to find a MD to work with in running the tests and then self pay through a summarization of the tests with an ND over the phone or through email. It is hard work to get this type of care and to find out if insurance will cover all the tests. Work with them with everything in writing. Not the easy way, but it might help someone who couldn't afford helpful tests otherwise.

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2008, 04:01:16 PM » by boysmama

Sorry

This is still bugging me. I reread this thread and thought maybe some of the confusion is in the terminology since the GAPS program is more than just the GAPS diet.

So GAPS is made up of three parts: diet, supplementation, and detox/lifestyle. The diet part is great in my opinion and just couldn't hurt anybody. The supplementation and detox (for example the juicing recommendations) still bother me as these really can be overdone or done before the body is ready. Maybe part of my concern is because I have not read the book Gut and Phsychology Syndrome yet. Does the book go into details on why, how, and when to use supplements and detox?

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Re: GAPS Method / Diet [Gut and Psychology Syndrome]
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2008, 04:33:07 PM » by WellTellMommy

Quote from: mykidsmom on December 11, 2008, 05:37:09 PM

If I had to choose one test that I think is invaluable it would be....

Please start a thread with this invaluable info we would all benefit from. Kiss

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DD 5yo---Mom, I think we should take a camera with us when we go to Heaven, it'll be so beautiful up there.

Sherri

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