Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night

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Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« on: September 01, 2006, 01:21:57 PM » by Grace

Ok, I want to wean my 1 1/2 year old daughter. How do you reccomend I get her to go to sleep? Right nopw I just nurse her to sleep. With her big sister, I ahad to switch her to a bottle by 10 months because I was PG, and I still give her a sippy cup of water to go to sleep with every night. But that is not really what I want the 1 1/2 to do. It would be just as hard to switch her to a bottle as any other training technique. Also, my husband likes to tickle the kids and "wear them out" Huh

right before they go to bed, so I have a hard time doing the "calming bedtime routine ideas" Shocked

Thanks!!!!!!!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2006, 01:35:47 PM » by 4myhoonie

Looking forward to some answers on this one, my problem too, only he doesn't want to eat any real food, only select veggies, fruit and toast! Tongue

help please!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2006, 02:11:07 PM » by AgainstTheGrain

I will preface this by saying that I've nursed all my children until the age of 2 with the exception of 1 that weaned himself at 17 months because I was pregnant.

For me, after age 1 they really only nursed morning, nap time and bed time. I did it progressively. First I eliminated the nap nursing (as it was the least traumatic to remove), then I replaced the morning with a glass/sippycup of milk. This was hard for me as I enjoyed that time first thing in the morning laying in bed nursing. After only a few mornings of me getting the glass of milk before he wanted to nurse, I put him in bed with me and as I dosed back to sleep he got really close to my ear and whispered "Mama, I want a glass of milk." Then I did the same thing for bedtime being sure to still sit and rock and hold them before they went to sleep. None of my guys protested. Maybe because their need was really to cuddle not to eat, or maybe because they were old enough to understand when I said no more nursing. Huh

I'm not sure.

As far as not wanting to have them dependent on another sleep aide like a bottle, etc. Just make it a rule that there's no drinks in bed. Sometimes our guys like a drink before bed and that's fine, but it doesn't even stay in the room with them - Which my 2yo has asked a few times and I simply say "no". Hope what I did gives you some ideas of what you can do.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2006, 01:31:14 PM » by ShabbyChic

Okay I have 2 kiddies, ages 26 mos and 5 mos. My 2 year-old began sleeping through the night at 6 weeks, and has been very easily scheduled since birth. We have used Growing Kids God's way, To Train Up A Child, and Shepherd's a Child's Heart. He is a very sleepy kid, and very obedient in nature, and he just goes to sleep when we tell him to and always has.

Then there's my 5 month old. He was born with special needs (congenital muscular torticollis) and had a tumor (non-cancerous) on his neck which made nursing/swallowing very difficult for him. We've hung in there, and he's progressing beautifully (by Gd's grace) but has developed bad habits for eating and sleeping. He snacks a lot, is easily distracted, and he wakes up every 2 hours all night long to eat. He goes right back to sleep, but still, I need sleep, and so does he. He's cranky when he's awake, and I know it is from poor sleep habits.

We've tried letting him cry and my husband going in to comfort him every 15 minutes, but he can cry all night. He isn't hungry when I go to nurse him; he just comfort feeds for about 10 minutes and goes back to sleep. I am at a loss.

My attachment parenting friends (LLL) and my mother say that I should just follow his cues and continue to nurse him all night long and he will outgrow it. But this goes against Growing Kids God's Way's teaching and my gut instinct. He's 18 lbs at 5 months, so he isn't starving, that's for sure, and he is physically able to sleep through the night at that weight.

I feel so callous to say that I'm tired of getting up all night, but I'm zonked all the time, and I've been very impatient with my beloved husband and 2 year-old because I'm just so sleepy. Am I being selfish? Am I expecting too much from a kid with special needs?

Thanks, y'all.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2006, 01:39:09 PM » by diaperswyper

How often does he nurse during the day?

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2006, 01:41:32 PM » by ShabbyChic

Every 3 hours

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2006, 02:25:39 PM » by SarahK

We don't have any children with special needs like your son. But I've breastfed all of ours and have had about 4 that have done this thing (out of 9). Here's what we/I have done with success each time.

As soon as I can tell (or my husband - I tend to lack clear judgment under sleep deprivation) that this babe is just socializing, snacking & snoozing instead of eating and sleeping - a new order is established. I force a clear head for myself and watch closely. As soon as I can tell "this is a midnight snack" - I relase the latch, bundle him up and put him to bed. Not mad - just done.

It took our first about 5 nights to adjust. He had the snack habit for several weeks and is generally not a 'long fighter' to get his way. Others were different - but the training worked for them all.

My experience-
Sarah K

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2006, 02:41:18 PM » by boysmama

Hey, I can sympathize! My babies were all big eaters and nursed every three hours through the night and more often during the day Roll Eyes

. I've learned to sleep on the couch with them tucked up close and we were all happier. I'd go to sleep with daddy and try to put baby down and be back in bed when daddy woke up, too.(hopefully next time we'll have a king sized bed Grin

) My boys actually seemed hungry for those feedings until about 8-9 months when they started eating food then I did what SarahK mentioned. If it is just snacking you just pop it out and they are finished. My boys still wake up at least once a night, but all they need is a drink of water and to go potty. Oh none of ours have any special problems. It might make a difference.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2006, 03:34:26 PM » by IMPersuadd

Hi There,

I don't know how the special needs play into it - other than it can be very difficult at times to determine if the child validly has a problem or needs training. Been there done that and feel like a failure at times too. :-) It never seemed to fail that when I would "hold the line", the next day I would discover that he was sick or something and then feel really bad - bad mommy, ya know. So, I do understand how frustrating it can be. :-)

However, does the sleeping at night have to be an all or nothing proposition? How about weaning/training him to one night feeding about half way through? I have had two boys who had TOTALLY different nursing and sleeping patterns yet they BOTH nursed at night til 18 months - in fact it was the last feeding to go. As long as all they did was wake, nurse and go right back to sleep I didn't have a problem with it. I didn't talk or play or turn lights on or anything else. Sure I was a bit tired, but this too shall pass. :-)

I used to be one of those firm advocates of getting them to sleep through the night early and with my first daughter (bottle fed, scheduled to the max) it worked, but hasn't with any of the nursed ones. Nursing is best, but truthfully digests faster than formula or food and I'd rather feed my baby in a few minutes and know they are healthy and happy than meet some "schedule" that some book sets forth. Just my humble opinion. :-)

I hope you can find something that meets your son's needs AND allows you a bit more sleep. :-) Do you nap in the afternoon when they nap? During that early babyhood time when I was up alot at night I took naps guilt free. :-)

Lori

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2006, 03:50:17 PM » by Maria/NHM

I'm all for training children but I think the sleep issue can be pretty tricky! My first two were terrible sleepers. My first one especially couldn't seem to sleep for long periods. My last has been great. She goes to bed at nine and wakes up at around three and then at five thirty when we get up. I've kinda taken the middle ground. I work them onto a schedule but if they seem really upset then I will get them up and feed/cuddle her. Ours have always slept next to our bed so it's no big deal to pull them into bed to nurse. My kids are well behaved so I don't feel like my feeding style has spoiled them.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 04:02:02 PM by Ella »
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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2006, 06:35:54 PM » by ShabbyChic

Okay, y'all have great comments. It sounds more like a disposition thing on his part than failure on my part. I have just tried so many things, and I just want to make sure that I don't end up cheating him out of learning how to be a good sleeper. So I'll just keep trying to nap with them and know that this lack of sleep will only be for a season.

And I'll try the water in the bottle, too. I've offered the bottle with expressed milk to both of my boys, both of whom turned up their noses with less than polite refusals. Wink

Just in case I didn't understand that they were not going to be partaking of the bottle, thank you very much Mama...

I'm wondering if perhaps my high fiber high in beans (we don't eat meat) diet is causing excess gas for him and maybe that is the culprit. I have noticed that when he comfort feeds he is usually gassy. I think maybe the gas wakes him up. He does get painful gas pretty much all day long, and he is only nursing (no solids or supplementing). Does anyone know if I eat beano if that will help him (via milk)? Is there a better diet when you're nursing? I've tried gripe water with no help.

I've cut out all tomatoes and tomato products because they were particularly offensive and caused him to have reflux all day and night. My older son could tolerate anything when I nursed, but everything seems to bother my younger: broccoli, whole grains, beans, salsa, seasonings, pretty much everything I eat. My husband is also allergic to milk, and I'm wondering if my son is too. Could he be allergic to my milk?

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2006, 07:23:59 PM » by KristenA

Here's my $.02:

My baby ate once (around 2am) until 10 months.

The book, Healthy Sleep Habit Happy Child claims that children generally wake once (to eat) until around 9 months of age.

I really like the book!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2006, 07:40:54 PM » by ShabbyChic

Hey thanks, Kristen!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2006, 07:43:33 PM » by IMPersuadd

I don't think babies are allergic to their mother's milk - but can be allergic to foods that mom eats that are IN her milk. Dairy is a common one, so I would start there. Cut out all dairy, it will take a couple of weeks to be thoroughly out of your system. Then give it another couple of weeks to see if you see a decrease in the gas/fussiness. If no change, then try eliminating the beans. You want to try one food/food group at a time so you can clearly determine if it is the cause or not.

Hoping you find the culprit. :-)
Lori

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2006, 09:40:26 PM » by hollyolly123

I noticed you mentioned that you don't eat meat. Therin could lie the problem. I've read that going vegetarian, or all raw, or diets like that are great for cleansing but terrible on your system if you keep eating like that all the time. I notice that if I don't get enough meat protien (plant protein is not a complete protein and neither is meat, you need both) I have less creme content. Might I suggest the book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon? The information in the book is fantastic and has revoloutionized my thinking and the health of my family. We use raw milk and farm fresh eggs, and nothing boosts my milk supply more than a couple fresh over easy fried eggs from free range hens. Try a couple of local farms if you want to. Raw, cultured milk will not cause allergies or intestinal problems in anyone unless there is a sever allegy to the protein in the milk (casein), and if there was you would definately know it! My health has improved drastically, as well as my ability to nurse my children since I have been eating "real" foods. Also, check out www.realmilk.com.

You see, keeping a baby satisfied has everything to do with how much creme the baby is getting. I have nursed two babies and we've gotten into this cycle a couple of times. I am not an advocate of scheduling, but to break the cycle I'd reccommend waiting until the child is really really hungry before feeding him, then he'll drain the breast creme and all, and then you can just wait for hunger cues. He might be bored and wanting some kind of stimulation (this has happened with my youngest during busy weeks). Are you playing with him often or just carrying him around? My 9 month old gets cranky if we haven't helped her practice walking a couple times a day. I agree with the training discussed in some of the earlier posts. If he's snacking, pop him of and lovingly (and firmly) put him to bed.

Both my kids were consistantly sleeping through the night at 8 months, and would often sleep through from 4 months on. They would still wake to nurse once sometimes, or twice during a growth spurt or if I wasn't eating enough. Hope this helps!!!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2006, 09:54:57 PM » by *MommaJo*

Thank you for posting this topic. I have an almost 9 month old who still isn't sleeping through the night.
Thank you Maria (tjmjfamily) for your post. I've been wondering if I'll be affecting future behavior in my son if I do get him up and feed him when he probably isn't truly hungry. I have to admit, though, I don't help the situation. I've been taking the easy way out and just bringing him to bed with us and nursing him there. It's true that the sleep deprivation can do strange things to a middle-of-the-night-nursing-momma. I tell myself every evening that I WON'T bring Noah to bed with us. If he wakes up, I'll just feed him in the recliner and put him back in his own bed. Then the next morning, there he is lying next to me. I vaguely remember attempting to lay Noah back in his bed and him crying so then I pick him up and take him back to bed with me. It's all a little foggy!
This thread has encouraged me to clear the fog from my eyes at 3 a.m. and try harder to be persistant. I know that I'll sleep better if he isn't in bed with me. I agree with the others that sometimes you have to be a little lenient with the schedules, although I do love structure. But, then again, they aren't babies for long, enjoy the quiet snuggle time while it lasts.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2006, 09:57:00 PM by mshelson »
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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2006, 10:15:28 PM » by KristenA

Every baby and every situation is different.

Here's what we did:
Our baby slept in the room with us (in a cradle next to our bed) for the first 4/5 months. She sometimes fell asleep with me after the 2am feeding, but not generally.
We then moved her to her crib...we had two nights of sleeplessness. UGH!

then somehow it just worked. We taught her that she was not going to get out of the crib if she wasn't hungry/frightened/hurt/etc. I would nurse her and then ALWAYS put her back in the crib. This was actually my husbands strength. He or I would get her, bring her to the bed, she would nurse (I would fall asleep), then he would take her back as soon as she drifted off to sleep. It got to the point that at 7/8 months she would nurse, then when finished..... head butt me until I put her back in her bed. hahah!

I always nursed her though... she just seemed like she needed it (she always actively swallowed from both sides)

HTH

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 11:40:34 PM » by nursegirl

ShabbyChic,

I heartily sympathize with you on this sleep issue. No one understands how hard it is to go for months only getting sleep in two hour stretches unless they've been through it themselves. I have had different situations than yours; my first slept all night at 10 weeks with no training at all. My second is a preemie and very underweight. He just started sleeping through the night at 10 months. I've read, though, that if a baby is at a healthy weight, you can start sleep training at 4-6 months.

I read a book called "The Baby Whisperer" by Tracy Hogg (now deceased). Here was her basic method: Put the child in bed awake. Stay by their crib. When they cry, pick them up and comfort them. When they stop crying, put them back in bed. Repeat ad nauseum. She says the first night you try this, you'll probably have to do it 50-60 times. The second night, around a dozen. The third night, maybe once. By the fourth night, they should sleep through the night. Of course, this is a very condensed, over-simplified explanation. But, it's something you could check out.

Sarah

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2006, 07:58:56 AM » by Mamato6

Oh thank you for this post. I have a 4 month old and our nights go like this. Eat at 10. eat at 12, at 2,3,4,6,7. These are all little 10 min snack if that. I am so tired and have 5 others to care for. Pluss school starts on Monday. I am always tired. I will have to try just bundeling her up and letting her work it out. Cry

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2006, 11:00:52 AM » by MissusLeata

I once read a really good article by an experienced Christian mother, Rebecca Prewett, called Mothering in the Shadow of the Cross. It's not totally about babies sleeping through the night, but it's such a good article. It offers a nice perspective. You can read it at http://www.fix.net/~rprewett/shadow.html

Another good article is one called, "Unto the Least of These" by Rebecca Lewis. It can be read at http://www.ezzo.info/Lewis/index.htm. If you skip up to "Myth 4," it deals with babies sleeping through the night. http://www.ezzo.info/Lewis/myth4.htm

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2006, 11:52:36 AM » by ShabbyChic

Well, we put our 5 mo. old down to sleep for the night an hour earlier, and we kept to the schedule all day yesterday. I played with him a lot more, and watched for his cues for hunger and sleep and followed them. He set his own schedule of eating every 2 1/2 hours (instead of 3 like I usually cued him) and sleeping for 2- 2 hour naps and one 45 minute nap.

The result was he woke up only once and I let him cry for 15 minutes, sent hubby in to console him and put him back down, let him cry for 15 minutes, sent in hubby, and he cried for 10 more and fell asleep for the remainder of the night. He got a total of 10 hours sleep, but all of that was attributed to the big full feeding before bed, I think.

I think for him I was waiting too long to feed him, then he was so tired he only ate a little of the sweet front milk and didn't get to the cream before he fell asleep. So he was hungry sooner, waking up hungry from the nap, still sleepy from not getting a full nap, and the cycle continued.

I'll admit that with my first he got 100% of my attention, and I was able to nap EVERY time he napped. But with this one I now have a 2 year old whose desires to go and play outside or have a snack or go potty, etc., tend to win out for my time over the 5 mo. old. Thanks Hollyolly, I think I was neglecting my 5 mo. old a little.

I've only co-slept for the first week or so after birth, but never after because I am too afraid of SIDS. With my first we always followed wake, eat, put him to sleep awake, but I'll also admit that when this baby was on my cued 3 hour schedule he fell asleep at the breast a lot. I have also put him down awake today, Sarah, and it makes sense (like the Ezzos reccomend).

So basically I have come to the conclusion that it was MY poor attention to my baby's cues for the most part.

Does anyone else feel like they never learned anything about mothering until they were thrown into it because they had a baby? I babysat a lot, and even nannied from 6 am-7 pm and weekends before I got married, but it did not include breastfeeding and the exhaustion that entails. But I went to public school and had 2 parents who worked full time, so all I ever learned was how to dial the number for Domino's or throw the pop tarts in the toaster. The articles reminded me that I was leaning a little too much on my own understanding. Thanks, MissusLeata

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2006, 12:13:03 PM » by SarahK

Quote from: ShabbyChic on September 06, 2006, 11:52:36 AM

Does anyone else feel like they never learned anything about mothering until they were thrown into it because they had a baby?

I was trained as an RN and did practical work with Mayo Medical. I saw births, taught breastfeeding and newborn care to first time moms. Then I worked (not a student, but a professional) for a county health agency and taught the same sorts of things plus care of children with special health needs and critcal health problems.

I knew NOTHING worth knowing until I was on the other side of the bed with no name tag.

And, now that I know what I do, I know I still have a lot to learn.

My experience-
Sarah K

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2006, 05:13:25 PM » by nursegirl

Sarah K--

I can totally relate! As a nurse or any other healthcare worker, it's very easy to think you understand what people are going through. The truth is, though, that you can't understand it until, as you said, you're "on the other side of the bed." I have much more compassion for my patients now that I've experienced the healthcare system from their perspective.

Sarah

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2006, 05:31:28 PM » by Grace

My first was born 8 weeks early. She was in the hospital for 4 weeks. When they finally said we could take her home, I remember thinking "shouldn't they give us a test first or something!"

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2006, 08:37:01 AM » by ShabbyChic

Well my first son did not rock our world as much as our second. The first was just fun and easy because it was just me and him. When our second came I had a toddler to help nurture at the same time, plus our second has special needs that make him just plain different. It has been crazy.

I will say that since I first asked this question he is now sleeping SO much better. 8-10 hours straight, and the only reason he has woken up the past 2 nights is because our 2 year old has awakened him. And then my husband going in to reassure him and put him back down (sans the feeding) has worked to calm him.

I think the key was me spending more time with him during the day and less time cooking, grinding, scrubbing, etc. It makes me feel bad to say this, but I think the little guy just wanted some one-on-one time with Mama and this was the only time I wasn't busy! It has definitely made me re-evaluate.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2006, 09:38:22 AM » by KristenA

Quote from: ShabbyChic on September 08, 2006, 08:37:01 AM

I think the key was me spending more time with him during the day and less time cooking, grinding, scrubbing, etc. It makes me feel bad to say this, but I think the little guy just wanted some one-on-one time with Mama and this was the only time I wasn't busy! It has definitely made me re-evaluate.

That is so intuitive ShabbyChic! A lot of moms don't catch on to that truth. I know I need to remind myself of it often!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2007, 03:35:02 PM » by Joy

I really like the "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" book!! My little guy was waking up every 2 hours to eat (and then the little stinker even started waking up every one or one 1/2 hours!!!)- and I thought I was gonna die. Then I read that book & started scheduling when I'd go in to feed him/ change his diaper (only once or twice a night), and it's amazing how fast he fell into schedule! He still fusses sometimes when it's not time to eat yet, but if I'm consistent, he just falls back to sleep until I come to feed him.

I guess this method wouldn't work well if your baby sleeps in your room though.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2007, 07:48:53 PM » by Leah IL

Quote from: Joy on September 10, 2007, 03:35:02 PM

This book saved my sanity with the twins! They still wake up once in the night, but they go to bed at 6:30 pm!! And they sleep until 7am!! I have a life!!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2007, 08:20:33 PM » by diaperswyper

I need to get me that book!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2007, 07:51:18 AM » by berthday

We used the Growing Kids Gods Way and it was awesome!! Our 1'st DD was SO colicky and the whole 9 yards but we did the whole scheduling thing and she was sleeping thru the night at 6 weeks!! She'd eat at 10:00 P.M. and not wake up till 7:30 A.M. Our son was born with a heart defect so it went a little differant for him but he still was sleeping thru the night at 11 weeks! We would feed them and make sure they were dry and all there needs were met and lay them down to sleep -awake! Trust me it was not always easy but the end results were GREAT! We could go anywhere and if it was nap/bed time we would just lay them down and they would go to sleep -no fuss.Kids are so much happier when they are not sleep deprived.
HTH

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