Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #180 on: October 08, 2009, 11:26:17 PM » by BJ_BOBBI_JO

My oldest was a very hard baby and toddler to tend to. Her 1st year was very tiring for me because she was colicy and awake every hour or 2 screaming. Found out a lot of that was from dairy allergies. Wish I had known about peppermint oil back then.

She kept me awake and on my toes nearly 24/7 all while I was sick with gall bladder disease and just getting diagnosed with diabetes and sick from that. And she had ear infcetions all the time. Ug, Im so glad those days are over.

She is 9 now and still very sensitive to sounds, feelings, foods, and about every thing else. I have to give her peppermint oil in water a lot or peppermint tea. After having a difficult baby like that it made my next baby seem like a breeze.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #181 on: October 09, 2009, 12:53:57 AM » by Mamatoto

I've got a super high needs baby - 15 months old now. Up until about a month ago he nursed about every 30-45 minutes during the day and about every 2 hours at night. Every so often we go through a phase where he sleeps 4-5 hours at a time at night, but that's certainly the exception not the rule. About 2 weeks ago he started going through a phase where he needs to be within a couple yards of me at all times. I am a single mom with no support network and my own business (I quit my job after DS was born so that I could be a 24/7 mama). Clients come into the office during the day, but since DS constantly needs my attention, I can't actually sit at a desk and do any work until after he goes to bed. This means I usually shower once a week - can't do it while he's awake because he cries when I'm in the shower and also if I bring him in with me (he doesn't like the water spraying so much in his face). Every so often I find myself getting aggravated at the office if I really need to make a phone call or finish up a file or something. Then I feel guilty about feeling aggravated. But when it comes right down to it, I know that we have a special bond that many mama/baby pairs don't have, so then I feel grateful and realize that this too will pass. And when it does a few years down the road I'll probably look back on these days with much fondness. I don't plan on weaning my baby. When he is ready to slow down nursing or stop, he will. (I'm a very "organic" mama.) I'm lucky that I work with population groups that think it's normal for babies and toddlers to be attached to mama's breast all the time, and I've invested in some great nursing tops that make this easy and modest. This past month he cut way down on nursing all of the sudden - maybe we nurse only every 2 hours or so. And my period came back yesterday so I know we're in a transition phase, and I'm sad. My baby sleeps with me and will continue to sleep with me indefinitely. I see no reason to make things any harder than they already are - plus there's nowhere else to sleep, even if I wanted him to sleep apart from me. I have no idea how many times we wake to nurse during the night because neither of us really wake up - I get my breast near his mouth and on he goes and we're both back to sleep in seconds. This is probably the best way to get a good night's sleep (for both of us)! He doesn't really nap during the day, other than maybe 30 minutes in the car on the way to the office. Sometimes he naps later in the day, but only while attached to my breast. He's always been like that though, so it's normal for me. If I really need to get something done I pop him in the Ergo (I used the Moby up until about 9 or 10 months) and then I can usually do most of what I need to do. Guess I don't have any ideas other than keep nursing and sleep together. But hopefully this will help you realize that you're not crazy, and you can do it, and it's ok to get aggravated once in a while but just pretend like you aren't and keep on keeping on. I certainly never guessed I would have had a high needs baby. All of my friends' babies were content to lie on the floor or play by themselves or take naps, etc. So I was shocked into it. Thankfully I had already decided on a mothering style that fits well with high needs babies. The biggest challenge is adjusting my expectations of what I can get done during the day way down. Sometimes when I find myself getting aggravated it helps to remind myself that God is always there for us - He doesn't schedule times where he will comfort us. And so that is what I should do for my baby. He just needs more time with me than most babies need with their mamas. But there's nothing wrong with that. Also...another thing I have found exceptionally helpful is to know who I can talk to and vent. Don't talk about your high needs baby with someone who has never had one. They may be very well meaning, but there's just no way they will ever be able to understand. This is way longer than I thought it would be, but I'm tired and need to crawl into bed, so my brain is not functioning concisely

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #182 on: October 09, 2009, 01:44:06 PM » by nomadicjcfollower

Wow! mamatoto, thanks for typing all that even though I am sure you are exhausted. Yes, that does help me feel not alone. I can relate to the "all the other babies around when he was born were easy going" yeah, they all would actually sit in their swings or lie on the floor and be happy, oh no, not mine!

Bobbie Jo, I am interested in hearing more about the peppermint oil. How do you use it? And what exactly is it supposed to do?

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #183 on: October 09, 2009, 02:41:15 PM » by BJ_BOBBI_JO

Quote from: nomadicjcfollower on October 09, 2009, 01:44:06 PM

Bobbie Jo, I am interested in hearing more about the peppermint oil. How do you use it? And what exactly is it supposed to do?

Peppermint oil or just plane peppermint leaves is great for relieving digestive discomforts like colic and gas. I put the peppermint oil in water to drink it, like a drop or 2 in an 8 once glass of water. I actually put more in. Also dropping a few drops into the belly button helps relieve gas pains in the lower digestive tract. But it burns if gotten into the eyes like if baby were to rub their belly and then rub their eyes. I have found peppermint tea made with the dried or fresh leaves and peppermint oil to be the best for digestive pain relief. My baby is now 9 years old and still colicy if that makes any since. Peppermint is the only thing to bring her good enough comfort.

Peppermint some how dispels those awful trapped painful gas bubbles in the digestgive tract.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #184 on: October 09, 2009, 02:59:24 PM » by sweetestday

I really expected a lot from my first baby, and my husband, for my sake,helped me in getting him to sleep in his own room and own crib while he was still pretty young. It was super stressful on me. Then I got pregnant when he was 7 months old. I had always said I'd never sleep with a baby in my bed, but that's just how I survived with baby #2. He was very much a clinger until I weaned him at 18 months. At that time we lived in a tiny house, and slept in the same room out of necessity. Baby #3 came almost 3 years later and slept with us from the start. We live in a bigger house, but are all in the same bedroom due to remodeling issues. This has been my most demanding baby yet, but I am so much more relaxed through it all. He slept through the night for the first time last night in his own little bed at the foot of ours. He is almost a year old. Usually he joins us soon after my husband and I go to bed. I've learned to let go of my own desires, and just take these times as they come. My husband is the one who wanted us to have the babies in bed, have us all in one room (I wonder if that is why this remodeling is taking so long? Cheesy

) and it has really worked out well in the long run. Our two older boys had no bedwetting troubles, cause we could hear when they'd start rustling in their beds, and would take them potty once a night. The oldest was trained by 2 yrs, and our second son by 16 months. That was a huge plus!
Anyway, I'd say to just realize how short these days are. They grow up fast, so this is a time that shall pass soon. Don't sweat it too much.

Oh, and doing things the way your husband likes, helps things run smoother, too. I learned the hard way.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 03:04:31 PM by sweetestday »
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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #185 on: October 10, 2009, 10:42:47 AM » by lovetoreadmom

Just a few thoughts that come to mind (and yes, these are my humble opinion, yet based on experience with my three).

1. I think tummy sleeping babies sleep better and sooner.
2. A general routine of 2-3 hours to start and working up from there helps to regulate their systems and makes things easier on all involved in baby's life, b/c everyone can be getting the rest they need.
3. A routine also helps to give security to baby, b/c he/she knows when things are coming , etc.
4. Having a happy baby does take some training for baby and mama. Sometimes I have to let my baby cry, after all of his needs have been met (food, clean diaper, loving attention, etc.)
5. As the mama, I'm in charge of what my children do in all aspects, as I will know what's best and they can only really go on their whims (IOW - demand feeding should be kept at a serious minimum).

As I said, these are just my opinion, but they've worked on my three and many other very happy babies that I know.

Just my $.02.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #186 on: October 10, 2009, 04:39:31 PM » by Mamatoto

The following post offends me:

Quote from: lovetoreadmom on October 10, 2009, 10:42:47 AM

4. Having a happy baby does take some training for baby and mama. Sometimes I have to let my baby cry, after all of his needs have been met (food, clean diaper, loving attention, etc.)
5. As the mama, I'm in charge of what my children do in all aspects, as I will know what's best and they can only really go on their whims (IOW - demand feeding should be kept at a serious minimum).

because I feel it implies (1) parents can train a high needs child to be a low/medium needs child, and (2) high needs children don't really have valid needs. I know/know of plenty of families with one or two high needs children in a family of low/medium needs children, with the parents raising/training each child the same way. High needs children have a true, acute, valid need to be held, nursed, played with, etc. much, much, much more than low/medium needs children. I choose compassionate/responsive mothering to ensure that my baby's needs are met as much as possible. There is a difference between my baby's cries for love and comfort (whether at the breast or cuddling or being held), his cries because he is mad I won't let him touch something, his cries that he is scared, his cries that he is in pain, his cries that he has to go pee, his cries that he is hungry, etc. And so I respond differently to his different cries. (Of course, when he was a newborn, there were times I couldn't figure out why he was crying, but I figured it was much more preferable for him to be crying while in my arms than crying on his own.) But I am able to respond differently because I understand my baby. I just want to encourage other mamas of high needs babies to remember that a high needs baby is not a "bad" baby. Because I respond compassionately to my baby's needs, no matter how great, I constantly hear (at least twice a day) that my baby is the happiest, most content baby people have seen. But he is happy BECAUSE I practice responsive mothering. If I did not practice responsive mothering, I would have a very unhappy baby and I would be a very unhappy mama. Yes, it is HARD every day to practice responsive mothering (I object to the term "demand" mothering because that implies that the need for nursing, holding, etc. isn't a valid need), but I do it because I believe it is the right choice for me and my baby. Every family needs to do what works for them, so my way isn't necessarily the right way for everyone. But it is the right way for us.

I love the idea about a thread where us similarly situated mamas can safely share our stories and encourage one another. I enjoy reading stories about other high needs babies because it reminds me that I'm not alone. I'll repeat what I think is the most important thing I wrote in my last post:

Quote from: Mamatoto on October 09, 2009, 12:53:57 AM

Also...another thing I have found exceptionally helpful is to know who I can talk to and vent. Don't talk about your high needs baby with someone who has never had one. They may be very well meaning, but there's just no way they will ever be able to understand.

Click here to read a great story from Above Rubies that will hopefully encourage other mamas of high needs babies.

Also...nomadicjcfollower, you might want to check out the book "The No-Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers" by Elizabeth Pantley. It is full of compassionate ideas for helping your baby sleep well at night. I'm not sure why I didn't think about it when typing my earlier post!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #187 on: October 10, 2009, 05:48:16 PM » by kamom

Remember Mamatoto, she said "Help! Moms of high needs babies!"
I too, have/had a high need child compared to other ones and we chose a path similar to lovetoreadmom in how we handled him and we had very good results. We trained him not to be so demanding. You can choose how you handle your son. It's up to you. Just please don't be offended if others offer advise differing from yours if she asked for it.
I though of one more suggestion. Are you sure he's getting enough food. I would try giving him some solids (like baby cereal) before bedtime, to make sure that hunger is not keeping him awake.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 07:01:39 PM by kamom »
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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #188 on: October 10, 2009, 05:53:07 PM » by steadygirl

My kids never sleep well at night until I wean them. They usually wake up 2-3 sometimes more a night until I get them almost totally on food. My oldest boy (now 3) didn't sleep through the night until he was 19 months old. Once I started weaning him, though, he slept so well and still does! ( there is hope!)
My 15 month old is still waking up quite a bit so I have started to wean her ,too. I think when nursing them becomes an unpleasant chore it is time to let go of it. I think that with the frequent waking up and not going back to sleep is from the trying to let him cry it out. I tried that with my oldest and he could go for hours. I decided it was best for both of us to just let him do what he needed to sleep. I guess my best advice is to be happy with nursing him to sleep or weaning. Lots of us have been through it and you just kinda have to decide what is best for Mommy and Baby depending on the situation and child.

Been there, I know how stressful it is, especially with a very active child. ((HUGS))

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #189 on: October 10, 2009, 06:24:15 PM » by RunAmokFarm

Oh my! I get to play "Moderator" already?! I am soooo excited! Cheesy

We, as parents posting here in an adult setting either:
1. Need to be open to each other's ideas, OR
2. When posting a new thread, or replying to posts in a thread, regarding difficult topics, we must be clear that we are open to suggestions, or that we do NOT want suggestions differing greatly from how we are currently dealing with our particular situation.

Frankly, if we are not open to other ideas or suggestions from mothers who have "gone before" us, then posting a "help" thread would not be of any use to us, or others coming here later for viable options for their own children. As this is a public health forum, we should nearly always keep this in mind. Does that make sense?

Now, that said... We CERTAINLY do not have to agree with everyone else's posts... but when discussing something as personal as parenting techniques, we also should not be easily offended when others discuss differing methods - especially considering that these other methods may actually be beneficial - if not to us, perhaps to someone else.

In a thread like this, there will, inevitably be someone who posts an idea that is completely foreign - as in: absolutely against our parenting beliefs; the good news is that we do not have to implement those suggestions... but again, we also should avoid allowing ourselves to become offended; at least here on WTM, chances are VERY good that the folks are only offering what they truly believe may be of benefit to a stressed out momma.

Likewise, for those replying to various posts in this thread: We also need to be careful, and sensitivee when we make suggestions. For those mothering with an "always available" approach, the thought of allowing their little one to cry until it falls asleep can be downright upsetting. Cry

I can honestly say that my parenting skills have changed in many ways since our first child. Wink

I would ask... those who have posted "questionable" statements, to PLEASE self-moderate. This means, take a deep breath, read over your OWN post, and hit that "modify" button, if you think you can tweak your post somewhat, so it is not so "personal" or "upsetting".

If not... why, I might lock this thread... or sumthin'... Grin

« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 07:16:51 PM by RunAmokFarm »
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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #190 on: October 10, 2009, 07:17:19 PM » by Kitty

Good job, RAF <clap, clap, clap>. Cheesy

The OP is always helpful to refer to, as well:

Quote from: nomadicjcfollower on October 08, 2009, 11:13:09 AM

I am desperately in need of some encouragement from other moms who have or have had high needs babies or toddlers!...

I am not so much looking for advice as I just want to hear some real life stories from other moms. If you have advice, I'd be happy to hear it, but I just feel like I've already tried everything. Thanks!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #191 on: October 11, 2009, 08:22:01 PM » by lovetoreadmom

Quote from: Mamatoto on October 10, 2009, 04:39:31 PM

The following post offends me:

Quote from: lovetoreadmom on October 10, 2009, 10:42:47 AM

Quote from: Mamatoto on October 09, 2009, 12:53:57 AM

Mamatoto,

I am genuinely sorry that I offended you, and that you felt I implied that a high needs child does not have real needs. I have three very busy children, who some may label as high needs/high maintenance, and that's okay. I was just trying to offer some suggestiions on some of the posts and the points I had read.

Also, just to add, I did not say demand mothering, I said demand "feeding." By that I mean that a mother can often times mistake the cries of her baby as hunger when in reality it may be something else. I did not and still do not mean that you do that, as posts on these threads do not necessarily come in order like a conversation of people on the phone or in the same room. I was making general statements of my own experiences.

IMO, I do believe there are some things that parents can do to help to bring their high needs child to a more manageble level for themselves (the parents), but that does not mean that those needs do not exist. They most certainly do.

I have always lived by the motto "Know THY baby," and this would apply in your case or anyone's case that has a high needs child, etc. I certainly understand if you do not agree with me. I think we all have issues where we don't agree with someone, but we can just agree to disagree.

As I said, I am sorry for offending you, and I hope you can forgive me.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #192 on: October 14, 2009, 01:09:36 AM » by Mamatoto

Lovetoreadmom, thanks clarifying. You're so right - it is challenging to interpret what others are saying through writing only. I got the impression you were saying that high needs children are basically a result of poor parenting. Of course, this put me on the defensive re: high needs children in general and my parenting style as well. As I stated earlier, each family needs to choose the parenting style that they are comfortable with and that is best for individual children. I respectfully disagree with the parenting style of many mamas on this forum, and it's obvious many of the mamas on this forum disagree with my parenting style, but that's neither here nor there since we're each only responsible for parenting our own children

On a side note, a while back I read The Fussy Baby Book by Dr. Sears and found the first half very interesting (the second half was discipline-related and I didn't agree with much there). He makes the argument that high-needs babies don't necessarily have higher needs than other babies, they just communicate them better. I do not believe that high needs babies are "demanding" or "bad" (I always hate it when people ask whether I have a good baby - I usually ask them to describe good, then proceed to tell them I must have a bad baby Wink

), do not believe their personalities should be stifled in any way, and do not believe I should teach my baby to expect me not to respond to his needs (which of course are different from his wants! I suspect much of the disagreement out there boils down to what is a need vs. a want). Instead, I choose to look at my high-needs baby as a good communicator

As Dr. Sears posits, it's up to me to learn how to funnel their behavior/personality/energy/intensity in the right direction. I know many of you don't agree. But if you do, you might enjoy checking out that book.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #193 on: October 14, 2009, 08:10:10 AM » by RunAmokFarm

I have so many things I really want to share regarding helping little ones sleep through the night, as well as simply being "content & happy" during the day... and I am sure there are at least a few others who have thoughts on this as well. Since I only have a few minutes this morning, I feel my leading into something like this would only open an entire can-o-worms - one I do not wish to sort through this evening. <wink>

I, for one, need some time to think about what I have to share, IF I should share, and "if so", HOW (??) should I should compose my response(s)?

There are many mommas/families here with multiple (and many more than "multiple" Cheesy

) happy, healthy, content, brilliant children... Surely their experience and wisdom can be shared in such a way that young mothers will truly benefit from the advice given -- without taking offense?

So... I am going to lock this thread until tomorrow --
Jaque

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2009, 10:55:04 PM » by RunAmokFarm

So, this took me a little longer to get to than I had planned. Wink

What we have seen over the last few posts, especially, is a rather significant difference of opinion. Why? Because we are all coming from different familial situations, backgrounds, and even to some degree, cultures. What remains constant is “human nature”.

“Human nature” wishes to have its needs met... as well as all its wants and desires. It is the very important job of the parent(s) or guardian(s) to determine what is truly a “need”, and what is simply a “want”.

Why is this important? Most older folks with child-rearing experience will verify the act of providing a baby, toddler, young child, preteen, and then teen everything they “want” is not healthy - physically, mentally, or “spiritually”. Giving a child their every desire will create an extremely selfish individual, one with a self-destructive lack of self-discipline in areas such as eating, sleeping, and purchasing. This individual will expect that others should always meet their whims and desires.

Frankly, while there may be disagreement with my previous and following statements, “training” in certain areas is not so much about the right to parent in a way that makes us feel most “comfortable”, it is about doing what is healthiest and safest for our children.

While the original OP's are regarding helping babies sleep through the night, I think it may be important to touch, momentarily, on a couple other behaviors – because, ultimately, how a child is “trained” or “allowed” to go throughout its day will greatly affect its sleeping practices at night.

FEEDING
Unless there is a serious health problem, an infant does not physically “need” to eat every ½ hour or even every hour - they may desire to do so, but it is not a legitimate, physical need. Our bodies are designed to eat to fullness, and then process our meal before starting the digestive process over again.

From a nutrition standpoint, it is not healthy for a baby or toddler to constantly be eating/digesting food; the body needs time in between meals to “rest” and process what is already traveling through the system. As it takes a good deal of energy to digest a meal, the body needs time away from digesting to work toward building the immune system, healing injuries... and in the case of an infant or toddler, that energy can be put to good use simply building muscle and bone.

Obviously, young babies DO, absolutely, need nourishment more often than older babies or toddlers – but as loving parents, it makes sense that we should be adjusting their eating habits toward the goal of healthy eating. Please note, I am not against sleeping with our babies/younger children, and am absolutely for allowing somewhat “random” nursing throughout the night... but the goal should be training the infant/toddler toward healthy eating, not gluttony.

INSECURITY
Regarding babies/toddlers who wish to be carried all around the house, thus disrupting a mother's necessary daily activities - and YES, we do have daily chores and responsibilities that must be attended to... Unless there is a serious health issue, a healthy child does not have a physical need to be in its mother's arms constantly. It may wish to be there, but a healthy child can learn to be secure in their surroundings; content to explore with their eyes and hands, enjoying learning toys, and learning to fill their time with “new” things. If we constantly give in to their pleas to be carried, they will learn more insecurity, not less.

SLEEPING
Again, unless there is a serious health issue that must be treated, it is simply not healthy to allow children to be up and down all night long. They need to develop proper sleep patterns – regardless of their personal wants or desires. If we allow a child to direct their own, haphazard sleeping times, it can lead to detrimental sleeping patterns as an adult.

These are, of course, some basic thoughts regarding the need for certain types of training. Training is not a bad thing, when done properly and for the right reasons.

NOW... I am going to open this thread up again -- with some basic ground rules:

**If you do not like, or are upset by, something someone has posted (including me) regarding their training techniques, or lack thereof, please DO NOT post your personal reaction (as in, NO personal "attacks" or personally directed posts).

**YOU MAY offer other suggestions that you feel might work "better"; personal examples or stories of how these techniques (or lack thereof) helped your baby learn to sleep through the night might be nice.

**IF something is seriously offensive, then please feel free to either hit the "notifiy" button to alert all moderators of a potential problem, OR send the offending person a KIND pm explaining how this may have hurt your feelings, upset you, or made you angry... but it better be KIND. (or else!)

Thank you for understanding...
Jaque

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #195 on: October 17, 2009, 12:25:13 AM » by lovetoreadmom

RAF,

I really enjoyed your post. I think it was balanced, and your approach was straightforward, yet amusing at the same time.

Training can make life so much more pleasant for all involved . . . baby, siblings, parents, relatives, and friends. For another topic, but started when my children were just infants, I had a lady ask me recently how I got my children to behave so well in Wal-mart. She told me she has a grandson that was about five yo, and he would have been running all over the store. I told her that we practice or train at home, and then really work hard when it's time to go to remember the things we've worked on together.

Training gives a child stablity and the freedom to express themselves in their own personalities, knowing how their parents/guardians will respond. It takes time, but it's well worth the effort.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #196 on: October 17, 2009, 07:30:11 AM » by kamom

RAF,
You've been very gracious to us all. Thank- you

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #197 on: November 17, 2009, 04:13:05 PM » by chrysalyde

I've skimmed through this thread and haven't really found an answer (but I may have missed it...)
I was wondering if someone could help me figure out what is going on with my baby.
She has been one of the easiest of my four children. From birth she was a big sleeper, taking one 3-4 hours nap in the morning, and one 4-5 hours nap in the afternoon. And she was sooo easy to figure out. I nursed her whe she woke up, then when she cued me she was getting tired, I would pop her in bed with the noise machine and off to sleep she would go without any crying (she wasn't even in a darkened room as my husband was working in the same room most of the time). At night, she slept with us. I didn't even need to swaddle her like I did my other kids, but did lay her on her stomach. She started sleeping about 8 hours straight through the night when she was about 5 weeks old, and a month later she was sleeping 12 hours straight. I progressively weaned her from the noise machine, and moved her to her own bed with no problem. She was the dream baby. At one point she only had 3 feedings a day : they were good long feedings (20minutes) and she emptied both breasts (with my other children, I only nursed one side at each feeding). The only problem with so few feedings was that she wasn't gaining much weight.

Around 5 months old, she started waking up once during the night, and I thought that was fine, that she needed the extra milk to put on a little bit of weight. When she got to 6 months, I started giving her vegetable soup hoping she would go back to sleeping through the night (my milk was low in the evenings). Right away, she started waking up TWICE a night... Her doctor suggested giving her the soup for lunch, so that I would have more milk in the evening, as breastmilk help babies sleep better according to her (because of the endorphins). That didn't change anything and I started giving her cereal after her afternoon nap, and now, at 7 months old, she wakes up 3 times a night ! Was is going on ? As a mother of 4, I know I was spoiled those first few months, but now I am getting exhausted. I want my dream baby back ! Seeing that I also get up most night because of another of my other children having various problems (nightmears, or wetting their bed, or coughing or whatever... you mothers know how that works), I'm having trouble being alert enough during the day. Life for all of us would be better if the baby slept better. Would anyone have an idea why she is waking up more and what I could do about it ? Of course, since she's gotten older, day naps have gotten shorter, but she still has two very good naps in the day.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 04:16:24 PM by chrysalyde »
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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #198 on: November 17, 2009, 04:28:45 PM » by hi_itsgwen

Breast milk can contain up to 50% saturated fats, and lots of other good stuff that baby needs to grow and develop. Veggie soup isn't going to be a rich enough replacement...though it is providing good vitamins and extra fluids. I would recommend upping your healthy fats intake and nursing her once more per day this week, and then add in another nursing time next week. This should really help to up your milk supply. Maybe also try a tea or supplement for increasing your supply. Mama's milk fat not only gives them the cute chub, but it also is a vital component of the developing neuralogical system. The brain is made of fats, and the nerves are coated with a fat called myalin.

All of mine would 'signal' me that they were in a growth spurt and needed more by waking up in the night. Once we added in that extra feeding at night for a few nights, it would boost my supply for daytime feedings, and they'd stop waking up at night.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #199 on: November 18, 2009, 08:51:44 AM » by mommyM

Quote from: chrysalyde on November 17, 2009, 04:13:05 PM

Is she teething? It seems like all of my babies, when they got older they would not sleep well from teething. Try giving her Tylenol at night for about a week, it won't hurt her. Also, when you really really get into a pinch, like you have a big day the next day, give her just a little bit of Children's Benadryl before bed. I know this maybe contrary to what other people say on here but it works. The other advise is good too, the veggie soup won't help her, just nurse her more often and try to drink some sleepytime tea every night for yourself too!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #200 on: November 18, 2009, 09:33:10 AM » by hi_itsgwen

Quote from: mommyM on November 18, 2009, 08:51:44 AM

Hylands teething tablets or colic tablets are supposed to be great for teething pain.
Personally, I would skip the Benadryl. Well before I had any idea about more natural medication, we tried the Benedryl with my daughter for a long plane ride, and it wound her up like a top. Roll Eyes

Which was NOT the desired outcome.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #201 on: November 18, 2009, 02:44:58 PM » by bettarcamping

This is exactly how my baby was! I spent many nights wondering what had happened to my "perfect sleeper." For us it really was all about the teeth. The TOP teeth, which came in around 7 months. After that she still wasn't sleeping well and I think it's because I was being stubborn and trying to to feed her when she woke up. I felt like she was getting old enough to sleep through the night and we had been "training" her to wake up and eat. This was at about 8.5-9 months. But now I think that expecting my baby to sleep longer than I sleep with no nourishment was part of the problem. So I started nursing her at night (twice at that point) again and she started sleeping again. Until more top teeth started coming.

I don't really know what might be a good substitute if you don't have much breast milk at night...goat milk maybe? Can't say... but I don't think veggie soup would be very filling. I don't find it very filling!
But I do know what helped us with the teething. We use the hyland's teething tablets and LOVE them, they really work! The only exception is about two or three nights before the teeth pop through...then the tablets just don't cut it all night. So we do use a little bit of infant tylenol. I'm not a huge fan, but sometimes I just can't think of a better way (I use tylenol for myself when I have a really bad headache I can't shake, so I figured...why would I let my baby suffer?). We also try to give her a frozen teether and lots of snuggles before bed....seems to help for a while.
Hope that's helpful. My baby is about two weeks from her first birthday and just now starting to sleep all night again...waking up once around 4:30 or 5 to nurse for a bit and then going back to sleep until 7 or so. I know its hard...but hang in there....you'll get it (and it'll be good)!

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #202 on: November 19, 2009, 04:24:05 PM » by chrysalyde

Yes, we've been wondering if teething was the problem... for several months though and still no teeth. They're bound to come out one of these days though !

I have a feeling I gave the impression I had been giving her vegetable soup instead of nursing her. That's not the case : first I gave her soup in the evening because I figured it was better than nothing (just sucking on an empty breast), but I still nursed her afterwards (for whatever small amount did come out). Then I switched (sp ?) and started giving her the soup for lunch (with breastmilk for desert) hoping I would have more milk in the evening that way. When that didn't help I started giving her cereal (with is more filling than soup) after her nap. I'm not convinced hunger is the problem as her sleep got worse, not better, every time I upped her food intake. Furthermore, nursing her 2 or 3 times in the night isn't good for my milk supply : in the morning, there is "nothing left" and so she doesn't get a good first feeding so she's cranky I end up nursing her several times in the morning. I have come to the conclusion that after 6 years of continual pregancy and/or breatsfeeding, my body just can't keep up and it's been a real struggle this time around to keep my milk supply (I have drank a tea similar to Mama's Milk tea every day for 6 months, I eat more than my husband and dring about a quart of water every day, and it's still tough). I weigh 96 pounds so I think my body is telling me I can't give much more !
So, for those two reasons, I'm not sure more nursing is the solution to her sleep problems.

Quote from: hi_itsgwen on November 17, 2009, 04:28:45 PM

All of mine would 'signal' me that they were in a growth spurt and needed more by waking up in the night. Once we added in that extra feeding at night for a few nights, it would boost my supply for daytime feedings, and they'd stop waking up at night.

I sure wish that had been the case with her !

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #203 on: November 19, 2009, 10:40:20 PM » by hi_itsgwen

Quote from: chrysalyde on November 19, 2009, 04:24:05 PM

I have come to the conclusion that after 6 years of continual pregancy and/or breatsfeeding, my body just can't keep up and it's been a real struggle this time around to keep my milk supply (I have drank a tea similar to Mama's Milk tea every day for 6 months, I eat more than my husband and dring about a quart of water every day, and it's still tough). I weigh 96 pounds so I think my body is telling me I can't give much more !
So, for those two reasons, I'm not sure more nursing is the solution to her sleep problems.

Wow...OK, those are some significant details. You may have digestive issues if you're that tiny, eat plenty, and are having problems with milk quality. Do you have any known food allergies?
Have you tried digestive enzymes? They'd help you absorb more nutrients out of the food you're eating. If you've got digestive issues, then your little one may also have trouble digesting foods...which may be why her sleep is more disturbed when you up her food intake. Just some thoughts. There are some VERY knowledgable ladies on the allergen boards here on WTM. You could pick their brains as to what you may want to try to enrich your milk and put weight on the both of you.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #204 on: November 20, 2009, 12:23:43 AM » by 4myhoonie

gwen has great advice, but it also seemed to me that a qt. of water wouldn't be enough while nursing. i'm sure i drink probably twice or three times that much, and i normally weigh about the same as you chrysalyde. just a thought.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #205 on: November 20, 2009, 05:43:43 AM » by chrysalyde

Quote from: 4myhoonie on November 20, 2009, 12:23:43 AM

sorry, I meant 1 gallon. I think in metric, so I drink between 3 and 4 litres (sp ?) a day, and I got confused between quarts and gallons...

Quote from: hi_itsgwen on November 19, 2009, 10:40:20 PM

Do you have any known food allergies?
Have you tried digestive enzymes? They'd help you absorb more nutrients out of the food you're eating. If you've got digestive issues, then your little one may also have trouble digesting foods...which may be why her sleep is more disturbed when you up her food intake.

I hadn't thought about that. No, I don't have any known food allergies and I had never thought my baby could have some. I had never heard that babies could have digestive problems because their mother does. Is it genetic ? (ps : she has never had antibiotics, so can't have candida).

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #206 on: November 20, 2009, 10:05:34 AM » by hi_itsgwen

Quote

Actually, digestive weakness can be genetic (pancrease not producing enough enzymes) and physically passed on...good flora, enzymes/bacteria etc. are passed onto newborn baby by touch and through breastmilk.
Here's a post on the leaky gut thread.
http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,603.msg200918.html#msg200918

I agree that not all digestive problems boil down to Candida. There are lots of issues that can cause problems between the eating, digesting and absorbtion of foods/nutrients.

This thread is about digestive enzymes, and the post links to a good article to describe the differences between digestion and absorption issues.
http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2330.msg241041.html#msg241041

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #207 on: November 22, 2009, 08:55:45 AM » by chrysalyde

Quick update : she has slept till around 5 am for several nights now (put her to bed around 7:30 pm) ! And her first two teeth popped out ! Which might explain her poor sleeping these last few weeks.

I haven't looked into digestive enzymes and such yet, we'll see if we need to or if this was just a teething problem.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #208 on: November 22, 2009, 12:46:06 PM » by Kitty

Something unrelated to the current discussion, but worth mentioning.

We had used a co-sleeper w/ #4 and he's been in the bottom of it (like a pack and play) since he was old enough to sit up in the bassinet/top level.

We've wondered if being a tummy sleeper, if the bottom mattress was too thin/hard and if that interfered w/ his sleep. We switched our 18 month old to a crib mattress in a toddler bed and he IS sleeping better.

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Re: Training Infants to Sleep Through the Night
« Reply #209 on: November 23, 2009, 02:49:40 AM » by herbalmom

Quote from: chrysalyde on November 20, 2009, 05:43:43 AM

(ps : she has never had antibiotics, so can't have candida).

Yes, she CAN have Candida w/out having had antibiotics. Babies get their mother's good/bad flora during birth so if you have Candida so does she. Also, the hormone balances of pregnancy & nursing encourage yeast/fungus so the fact that you have been pregnant/bf for so long would make yeast/fungus (there are MANY types of yeast/fungus that can overgrow in the body- not just Candida) in your body much more likely.

Although it does sound like it was teething causing the problems, digestion &/or allergies could still be a problem. Don't want to get too off topic here so here's a link to a post of mine that has several links to good info about allergies/digestion issues causing low weight &/or extra hunger/fussiness. Be sure to check out the links within the post. I know that it's a lot of links & info but there's lots of good info in those links.

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,25686.msg243883.html#msg243883

HTH Blessings ~herbalmom

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