Vitamin K

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2006, 05:23:18 PM » by petrimama

Quote from: KristenA on September 20, 2006, 02:35:27 PM

Whoa! Petrimama! I can't believe you haven't had your baby yet! I haven't noticed you around wtm lately, so I *just knew* you were with your new little one.

Well, happy pushing. Hope Labor goes easily for you and baby!

Nope - I'm still here! Late with #4!! But it's a blessing because we are still trying to get walls and floors in a few rooms after discovering black mold. Stress, chemicals, dust, etc...I'm glad the Lord has given us extra time to get things done! Thanks so much for the well-wishes. Maybe next time I post I'll have happy news!! God Bless! ~L

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2006, 05:26:16 PM » by petrimama

Quote from: joyfullyhis on September 20, 2006, 10:43:44 AM

You would most likely have to go to the county health department or pediatrician since it is a shot, not a drop.

My local hospital offers the shot. I was interested in the drops specifically as an alternative. If anyone knows anything, let me know! thanks! ~L

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2006, 09:31:13 AM » by KeepItSimple

This was a topic of concern for us as well when we had our little ones. Interesting to note, you need to look back on the 'history of protocol' for what they used to do, and now do for all babies. We learned that they started giving Vitamin K when circumcision became a 'standard procedure' for it's ability to help blood clotting in the newborn. Then, to make it easier on the staff...Vitamin K was then made part of 'protocol' for all newborns. It's sort of like the eyedrops. No baby born by c-sectioin has any sort of need for the drops since they do not pass through the birth canal, however the eyedrops are 'protocol' in most hospitals no matter the route of delivery.

I just kept going back to...God knew what he was doing in the beginning. That is what got us through our decision-making process with our kids.

Take everything to prayer, and when you're done, leave the bad stuff there...that's what I tell the kids....

Blessings,
Camille

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2006, 11:25:26 PM » by savedbygrace

I had my first 2 babies in Florida and didn't know anything about the vitamin K or the eyedrops. They just did them without asking or even telling me they had done them!! We did, however, know enough to refuse the Hep. B. They didn't make too big a deal out of it because my diplomatic husband just told them we were going to wait awhile. yea, like his whole live! Wink

The second child we had in Florida with a midwife but ended up in the hospital because I was stuck at 8 1/2 cen. for over 8 hours! (ouch) We refused the Hep. B, the eye drops and the Vitamin K. They didn't make a big deal out of it, just made me sign forms. You would think that you would have to sign forms to get them done to your child, not to not have them...My midwife said that the K was mainly for boys who get circumsiced before leaving the hospital and that the blood clotting would be fine after day 4. The eyedrops are for babies whose mothers have gonorrhea and why are newborns getting the Hep shot? how many newborns do you know who are exposed to Hep?? The 3rd baby I had in Alabama and they made a big deal out of the refusals we chose. "Its very important that you do this...blah blah blah" They actually got mad. I could tell they didn't like us much!! We were getting WIC and they always asked if the kids were up to date on their vaccinations and made me sign a form saying that I am officially a FREAK ha ha just some religious exemption or some such nonsense. I would probably crumble if my husband wasn't with me!!

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2006, 07:59:46 AM » by lynn

I'm sorry the hospital gave you such a hard time. I don't know how it is where you live but you might be able to find a hospital more in tune with your thinking if you have another baby. Before kids and homeschooling

I worked as an OB nurse. Our hospital had tons of midwife patients we even had a unit( where I worked) in a hotel that adjoined the hospital. It was awesome. Total rooming in, siblings were welcome, totally pro breast feeding! Most of our patients refused meds, circs, baths etc. and we thought nothing of it, in fact it was more the norm on our floor. Several pediatricians offered the oral K. Unfortunately, the hospital closed the unit, but the hospital still remains more "open" to those who choose not to go with the protocol. So I would suggest to anyone who gives birth in a hospital to check out different ones, usually if they get a lot of midwife deliveries no one is going to make you feel uncomfortable with your decisions. Also check to see if the hospital is "baby friendly" this means they really encourage breast feeding. Just some tips hope it helps. Wink

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2006, 03:41:13 AM » by Youthful One

Quote from: joyfullyhis on September 20, 2006, 10:43:44 AM

You would most likely have to go to the county health department or pediatrician since it is a shot, not a drop.

If you go to county health, it will likely be a shot. However, there are botanical drops and other drops available. As I mentioned before, I've always opted for the botanical drops. They have to be administered more than once, but I'd rather do that than a shot anytime!

Personally, I would search for a naturopath or homeopathic doctor. My naturopath has all of this information on hand as well, and can obtain/prescribe appropriate alternatives to the 'norm' of the hospital protocol.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2006, 06:45:21 PM » by sunshine4th

I know this is a little late, but I live in MI and my son did not get the eye drops or the Vit. K. We were pressured by the pedetrician but we did not give in to him. The nurse actually backed us up and said there is no reason for it if we wait to get him circumsized. The fact that they even pressured us about the drops was silly because he was a C-Section. You gotta love the doctors...

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2007, 01:32:25 AM » by joshs_rebekah

I had also heard about the Vit. K coming in on the 8th day. Amazing, we serve a God Who knows what He is doing!

BTW, in Louisiana, we were asked if we wanted the Vit. K and Hep shots, and were able to easily opt out of it.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2007, 01:30:54 PM » by Amey

Let's talk about Vitamin K! I've been reading some stuff from Dr. Mercola and from Weston Price on Vitamin K, and just wondered if anyone here has any experience with it other than those injections they give newborn babies. Here's my summary: apparently, a Vitamin K deficiency relative to your Vitamin D and A intake can cause calcification of the arteries and even internal organs. I've been taking cod liver oil for the last two winters, but there is no Vitamin K in it. It seems that those of us taking clo without keeping an eye on our Vitamin K intake may be putting us at risk for blocked arteries (and strokes and heart attacks) and high blood pressure. Here are the two articles I've been studying:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamin-d-safety.html
http://www.mercola.com/2003/may/14/vitamin_k.htm

The Weston Price article is long, but well worth reading. It is mainly about Vitamin D, and is very dense. Try reading the "sidebar" titled "The Warfarin Connection" if you don't have time for the whole thing. I'm wondering if this might be relevant to the Raynaud's I have been diagnosed with.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2007, 02:10:55 PM » by cpsenter

I would LOVE to hear feedback from you guys as well!
thanks!

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2007, 07:49:49 PM » by Amey

BUMP

I noticed that Vitamin K is not in the Supermoms. Anyone take it separately? K2 is the form that is supposed to prevent calcification, and that is found in fermented foods (sauerkraut, natto, and such), and it is also made in your intestines. This is why antibiotics can also contribute to a Vitamin K(2) deficiency. Vitamin K1 is the kind in green, leafy vegetables, so this is a different kind.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2007, 09:10:44 PM » by KatieMac

My midwife always had me take kelp during my pregnancies to increase my vitamin K but she said that with the Spirulina in SuperMom I probably wouldn't have to.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2007, 12:13:42 AM » by Whiterock

I am now very happy that my dh got me to enjoy sauerkraut!
Now if I could only get him to enjoy liver (I'd even settle for chicken liver).
WR

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2007, 12:15:49 AM » by SC

I know this happens every day, but I'm still just blown away at how a newborn is treated in a hospital setting. It is so foreign and strange to see a little person just moments old being forced to lay beyond the comfort of mama's arms and having her first touch be that of a needle. This video made me thank God again for the gift of being able to have my children at home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4O8MkDJehw

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2007, 12:28:50 AM » by linemansgirl

Quote from: SC on February 01, 2007, 12:15:49 AM

I wanted to cry just watching that poor baby. I hope & pray that the Lord makes a home birth possible for me next time around.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2007, 05:14:25 PM » by Asthedeer1

http://poisonevercure.150m.com/vaccines7.htm
Here is a good article about vitamin K.

Rebecca

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2008, 05:19:37 PM » by djsnjones

I just posted this on the Circumcision thread and was encouraged to post it here as well...

There are some interesting pros and cons to the Vitamin K issue (in case some of you haven't heard of them yet)...

To clarify, I am not pro-Vitamin K shot unless the baby is going to get a circumcision before the 8th day.

However, just so you know, some people like to give Vit. K to help to prevent little hemorrhages in the membranes around the baby's brain. The baby's head usually goes through a lot of molding to come through the birth canal, which can place a certain amount of stress on those membranes. Depending on how fast or intense that molding occurred, some small tears may occur in those membranes, and some people feel more comfortable if they protect those babies from too much bleeding, with a Vit. K shot.

My general belief is that babies are designed to accommodate the birth process quite well. And we comply with that design when we allow births to progress at their own pace, and not try to speed them up--with either drugs or enthusiastic cheerleaders urging the mom to "Push, push, push..."

Most of my homebirth moms preferred to opt-out of the Vit. K shot. But sometimes the midwives would suggest it if they saw a lot of bruising on the baby's face, or if the birth had been extraordinarily fast--meaning that the molding had occurred rapidly.

Some midwives also suggest it out of a sense of some amount of fear of an extremely rare condition known as "hemorrhagic disease of the newborn," in which the clotting mechanisms are compromised. But if there is unusual bleeding from the site of the cut umbilical cord, the shot can be given later...although it's not always a disease with obvious symptoms. But the condition is extremely rare.

The con against the use of Vit. K is that it can increase the incidence and level of jaundice on the third day. The baby's liver is very immature and is only designed to handle one thing--the conversion of fat-soluble bilirubin to water-soluble bilirubin (so that it can be readily excreted in the pee and poop). The reason that there is extra bilirubin to deal with is that pre-born babies need extra red blood cells because by the time the mother's blood reaches the placenta it has already lost some of the oxygen that it picked up in her lungs, so the baby needs extra RBCs to pick up the oxygen that's there more efficiently. Once the baby is born and breathing for himself, those extra RBCs are no longer needed, and the extra ones die off. A by-product of dead RBCs is bilirubin. So the baby's liver is hard at work at that one task.

If the mother gets any medications during labor, or if the baby gets any medications after birth, including the Vit. K shot, the baby's liver will have to work to also detoxify those medications, so it will not be able to devote its whole effort to the bilirubin issue, and it often will fall behind on that task, and as a result you will see a higher level of jaundice on the third day. So that is why parents often opt-out of giving the Vit. K shot.

However, one homebirth midwife that I worked with several years ago told me that the dose of Vit. K that is given today is much lower than the doses that were given in the 60s and 70s when parents first started opting out of mainstream procedures and routines.

So it's a bit of a gray area. But I've also been very interested in the information that's been out in the last 20-30 yrs about things that the mother can eat that might possibly give the baby a higher level of Vit. K more naturally, before he's born, to help protect him from any unforeseen extra manipulation during the birth.

There is also an in-between place you can be on this. If for some reason you can't postpone a circumcision to the 8th day, then at least postponing it past the 3rd day, and not giving the Vit. K shot until after the 3rd day might help the liver and prevent the increased-jaundice problem, since I believe that the greatest burden on the liver (as far as the bilirubin processing goes) happens on the third day (which may be around the time that the extra blood cells are dying).

Isn't it just a most wonderful design that just when the liver and kidneys need the help of getting more fluids to help wash all the extra bilirubin out, the mother's milk comes in??!! And isn't it a most amazing design that that breastmilk is also a most wonderful laxative at just the time when the bowels need to get that extra bilirubin out from their end as well??!!

« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 05:50:33 PM by djsnjones »
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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2008, 05:24:48 PM » by ndmomof6

Quote from: djsnjones on March 04, 2008, 05:19:37 PM

I just posted this on the Circumcision thread and was encouraged to post it here as well...

There are some interesting pros and cons to the Vitamin K issue (in case some of you haven't heard of them yet)...

To clarify, I am not pro-Vitamin K shot unless the baby is going to get a circumcision before the 8th day.

However, just so you know, some people like to give Vit. K to help to prevent little hemorrhages in the membranes around the baby's brain. The baby's head usually goes through a lot of molding to come through the birth canal, which can place a certain amount of stress on those membranes. Depending on how fast or intense that molding occurred, some small tears may occur in those membranes, and some people feel more comfortable if they protect those babies from too much bleeding, with a Vit. K shot.

My general belief is that babies are designed to accommodate the birth process quite well. And we comply with that design when we allow births to progress at their own pace, and not try to speed them up--with either drugs or enthusiastic cheerleaders urging the mom to "Push, push, push..."

Most of my homebirth moms preferred to opt-out of the Vit. K shot. But sometimes the midwives would suggest it if they saw a lot of bruising on the baby's face, or if the birth had been extraordinarily fast--meaning that the molding had occurred rapidly.

Some midwives also suggest it out of a sense of some amount of fear of an extremely rare condition known as "hemorrhagic disease of the newborn," in which the clotting mechanisms are compromised. But if there is unusual bleeding from the site of the cut umbilical cord, the shot can be given later...although it's not always a disease with obvious symptoms. But the condition is extremely rare.

The con against the use of Vit. K is that it can increase the incidence and level of jaundice on the third day. The baby's liver is very immature and is only designed to handle one thing--the conversion of fat-soluble bilirubin to water-soluble bilirubin (so that it can be readily excreted in the pee and poop). The reason that there is extra bilirubin to deal with is that pre-born babies need extra red blood cells because by the time the mother's blood reaches the placenta it has already lost some of the oxygen that it picked up in her lungs, so the baby needs extra RBCs to pick up the oxygen that's there more efficiently. Once the baby is born and breathing for himself, those extra RBCs are no longer needed, and the extra ones die off. A by-product of dead RBCs is bilirubin. So the baby's liver is hard at work at that one task.

If the mother gets any medications during labor, or if the baby gets any medications after birth, including the Vit. K shot, the baby's liver will have to work to also detoxify those medications, so it will not be able to devote its whole effort to the bilirubin issue, and it often will fall behind on that task, and as a result you will see a higher level of jaundice on the third day. So that is why parents often opt-out of giving the Vit. K shot.

However, one homebirth midwife that I worked with several years ago told me that the dose of Vit. K that is given today is much lower than the doses that were given in the 60s and 70s when parents first started opting out of mainstream procedures and routines.

So it's a bit of a gray area. But I've also been very interested in the information that's been out in the last 20-30 yrs about things that the mother can eat that might possibly give the baby a higher level of Vit. K more naturally, before he's born, to help protect him from any unforeseen extra manipulation during the birth.

There is also an in-between place you can be on this. If for some reason you can't postpone a circumcision to the 8th day, then at least postponing it past the 3rd day, and not giving the Vit. K shot until after the 3rd day might help the liver and prevent the increased-jaundice problem, since I believe that the greatest burden on the liver (in terms of the bilirubin processing goes) happens on the third day (which may be around the time that the extra blood cells are dying).

Isn't it just a most wonderful design that just when the liver and kidneys need the help of getting more fluids to help wash all the extra bilirubin out, the mother's milk comes in??!! And isn't it a most amazing design that that breastmilk is also a most wonderful laxative at just the time when the bowels need to get that extra bilirubin out from their end as well??!!

WOW!! Great post!

My first four babies had the Vit K shot...all had jaundice. My fifth did not have the shot...not one problem with jaundice.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2008, 09:54:37 AM » by petrimama

I though this was interesting considering the debate about K crossing the placenta, etc. (It does in very small amounts, but maternal supplementation has not shown an increase in what the fetus receives, according to my research. Makes me wonder if maybe Someone planned it that way for a reason?? Wink

) Anyway, this reports a study on K levels in colostrum and breast milk depending on maternal supplementation. ~L

http://www.naturalchildbirth.org/natural/resources/breastfeeding/breastfeeding15.htm

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2008, 10:47:15 AM » by Whiterock

This morning I was reading that the mysterious X-Factor found in butter from grass-fed cows could be Vitamin K₂. If this is not the right thread for this, I apologise.
WR

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamin-k2.html

Quote

Article Summary
In 1945, Dr. Weston Price described "a new vitamin-like activator" that played an influential role in the utilization of minerals, protection from tooth decay, growth and development, reproduction, protection against heart disease and the function of the brain.

Using a chemical test, he determined that this compound—which he called Activator X—occurred in the butterfat, organs and fat of animals consuming rapidly growing green grass, and also in certain sea foods such as fish eggs.

Dr. Price died before research by Russian scientists became known in the West. These scientists used the same chemical test to measure a compound similar to vitamin K.

Vitamin K2 is produced by animal tissues, including the mammary glands, from vitamin K1, which occurs in rapidly growing green plants.

A growing body of published research confirms Dr. Price's discoveries, namely that vitamin K2 is important for the utilization of minerals, protects against tooth decay, supports growth and development, is involved in normal reproduction, protects against calcification of the arteries leading to heart disease, and is a major component of the brain.

Vitamin K2 works synergistically with the two other "fat-soluble activators" that Price studied, vitamins A and D. Vitamins A and D signal to the cells to produce certain proteins and vitamin K then activates these proteins.

Vitamin K2 plays a crucial role in the development of the facial bones, and its presence in the diets of nonindustrialized peoples explains the wide facial structure and freedom from dental deformities that Weston Price observed.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 10:49:50 AM by Whiterock »
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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2008, 04:22:41 PM » by ndmomof6

Quote from: SamsGirl on April 18, 2008, 04:15:11 PM

hubby and I are prayerfully researching this right now and I wanted to bump it up to see if some of the "new" mommy's would let us know what they did, why and if any resistance was met with the professionals involved - when we mentioned it to our MW she highly recommended giving it and said it was PURE vitamin K, and told us a "horror" story about what MIGHT happen if we didn't.

I'm not exactly a "new" mommy...my fifth is almost 7 months, but she was the first of ours that we refused the vit K shot with. We were not met with any resistance at the hospital...just had to sign a form (I think...had a c-sec...hubby did paperwork). The only difference that I noted was that she was my first to NOT have jaundice. But then that's what my MW told me would happen.

She told me that babies are born with a naturally high bilirubin level and that a vit K shot would just overload the liver and cause jaundice.

If we have any more, we plan on NOT giving the vit K shot.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2008, 04:26:19 PM » by Roehrmomma

Quote from: SamsGirl on April 18, 2008, 04:15:11 PM

We chose to do no intervention with the last 2 living children. One hospital said you can sign off on everything BUT the vit K. Saying it was law.(Lie)

Next child -- new hospital several nurses said no you have to have everything no ifs ands or Buts about it. Then the RIGHT nurse came in and said yes you can go that way we just have to have you sign saying no thanks. So we did.No Vit K no problems.

In each and every decision you make for your labor and child is hard. But Doctors are generally the easiest to get to do your way resident docs and nurses are the worst.So stick to your guns and still be willing to give in an emergency.

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2008, 04:29:33 PM » by cecac

I'm glad this came up, as I'm preggars with #10 and going to a hospital this time. I think I will refuse it too--found out this week I can even refuse the eye drops with no problem at the hospital I'm delivering.

I've had babies to get it and babies to not get it. The only thing I'm careful with is the circumcision on boys, to make sure that it's the 8th day or beyond because it is supposed to be that Vit K is at it's highest level in baby then. I likely need to read this thread to make sure I'm not believing a wives tale or something. Roll Eyes

If your hospital is fine, then it's good. If not, then I suggest a birth plan typed up and given to your doctor and to the hospital with all the things in there you need to have communicated like that. Another one beside the K is whether or not you will refuse immunization. We also like it understood baby is rooming with us. But again, our hospital asks as a routine on all of this now, so no worries over here.

HTH,

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2008, 06:40:20 PM » by petrimama

I just wanted to comment on the mention of blood clotting best on the 8th day or any time after. I learned about 2 years ago that in fact, blood clots best ON the 8th day and then not so well for a couple of days. Then clotting ability peaks again (I think on day 11?) and dips again.
This is usually not a problem at all, but it is wise to be aware yourself and also to tell the doctor/mohel when scheduling a circumcision because otherwise they may just assume the baby has had his K and that clotting is not an issue.
And for the record, this is not an old wives' tale; it's an old midwives' tale. Cheesy

« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 06:42:29 PM by petrimama »
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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2008, 09:44:28 PM » by cecac

Lol, petrimama, I've read a good bit of this thread. Definitely NOT a wives tale, is it?

I forgot about one IRL situation where the mom herself felt it would have been better had her homebirthed baby been given the Vit K shot.

The poor wee one ended up in the hospital by the second day (blue tongue and mouth, lack of oxygen) and they found out that there were bruises on the baby's head, at least they think. Mama delivers very quickly, and this one baby had an EXTRA large head. Undecided

So I am wondering if I should take alfalfa for the next couple of weeks after reading here. Also wondering about Dr. Price's information as it pertains to me--If I drink the raw milk with cream from grazed cows (lots of yellow cream going on there) am I getting a good supply of K anyway?

Since this is a boy, and I may not be able to get him circumcised on the 8th day, is there a higher risk without the shot that way? I doubt it because I did have a very, very fast deliver with boy #2 who was circumcised on or around the 8th day. No problems, no jaundice, etc.

Any thoughts on this one?
Cara

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2008, 09:52:33 PM » by Whiterock

We did not do the vit K shot and had Josiah circumcised on the 11th day without any trouble.

WR

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2008, 08:39:18 AM » by petrimama

I agree that it shouldn't be a problem. I hope I didn't give that impression. ~L

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2008, 04:08:19 PM » by cecac

Thanks for you thoughts--no you didn't petrimama, just thinking over here, KWIM?

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2008, 10:48:44 AM » by cecac

Whiterock & others--what is your opinion and/or knowledge with the Vitamin K in the cream of the milk from grass fed cows? An excellent source, I hope??

It seems to say in this that you posted, Whiterock, that the butter carries it, but I was just wondering about cream in my milk, which I have access to every single day, although it may not be as concentrated as if I made and consumed the butter Huh

Quote from: Whiterock on March 05, 2008, 10:47:15 AM

Quote

Forgive my ignorance, but, also, is this possibly saying that if I up my milk intake with the cream for the next couple of weeks, that I will be doing my baby a favor with K in there? The thing is I've read on this thread that the Vit K does/minimally does/does not pass through the placenta, so I'm a little confused on that point.

Thanks for any thoughts,
Cara

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Re: Vitamin K
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2008, 11:43:06 AM » by Whiterock

Yes, I think that K is in the cream. But I don't know how much gets through to the baby. I am confused on that point, too. Wish I could be of more help.

WR

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