how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?

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how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« on: July 14, 2009, 08:46:38 AM » by yellowdaisy218

I have a 2 week old baby who was 9lb. 1 oz at birth. At his check-up yesterday he was 8lb 10oz. but also 1/2 in. longer. The dr. did not seem concerned, since he's breastfed and very healthy, but she wants me to come back and have him weighed next week to make sure he's getting enough. He's been sleeping about 5-7 hours at night, and I've been waking him during the day to eat about every 3 hours. I pretty much have to wake him each time during the day. How much do I need to feed him in order for my milk supply to be sufficient (w/the long stretch in the night-time). He seems very content after nursing, and we're doing the eat, wake, sleep cycle. Yes, I am following babywise, which seems to be working very well for him. However, I don't want my milk to dry up. Is 6-7 feedings a day enough?

*I would like to hear of other's experiences, if you have any, not just 'theories' :-)

*He has 5-8 wet diapers a day...several saturated. bowel movements seem good, too. Due to extreme/severe tearing, my m/w had me taking a stool softener....wondering if that could have been passed to him? I've stopped taking it, and his bm's are not so....overflowing...now...?

« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 10:39:55 AM by yellowdaisy218 »
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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 11:17:33 AM » by aireachail

Wow. 5-7 hours at night, for a 2 week old baby, is GREAT! My 3 month old sleeps 6-10 hours without interruption. I have done some Babywise with him as well.

A few thoughts:

* Explain your baby's feeding and sleeping routine to the doctor and see if she thinks there is any cause for concern. Maybe you just have a very full and happy baby. His weight doesn't sound like a problem to me, but it does seem a bit strange that you have to wake him for all his feedings. Then again, maybe you just make good rich milk!!

* If you have to wake your baby for each feeding, and he is also sleeping so well at night, you might ask your doctor about his jaundice level. You may just have an exceptionally good sleeper, but a friend of mine had a newborn that became drowsy and had difficulty eating, etc. Turned out he was very jaundiced (as in, had to be re-admitted to the hospital). Make sure your baby is getting some sunlight exposure on his torso to break down the bilirubin so that his body can flush it out.

* If your newborn is sleeping up to 7 hours at night, and his weight is a bit on the low side, you might think about adding in an extra feeding or two during the daytime, or feeding him every 2.5 hours for a couple of weeks. I have found that with my second baby, sleeping longer at night can also translate into being hungrier (or wanting to eat more frequently) during the day. Works for me!

* Your baby's weight doesn't sound too far off to me, but if he does end up struggling with weight gain, look into dairy intolerance. My friend's baby was not thriving and they couldn't figure out why she was not gaining weight until they realized she was intolerant of the dairy her mom was consuming. When her mom stopped eating dairy, the baby began gaining weight. Our first baby had a milder dairy intolerance. He would nurse for an hour at a time (and woke up at night for months) and yet didn't gain weight very well. The doctor wasn't really concerned, but we ended up adding food sooner than planned. (However, as a kid, he is still skinny, just as his daddy and I were as children.) Our second baby, who seems much more comfortable with my dairy intake, is gaining weight much better. So in retrospect, I wonder if our first baby's slow weight gain was because of the dairy intolerance, making absorption of nutrients difficult. Just some "food for thought"...

Congratulations on your new blessing... hope he continues to thrive and you continue to get some much-needed rest!

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 01:09:10 PM » by cecac

I think it was not unusual for some of mine, at two weeks, to have to be awakened.

You may want to keep that night stretch to just 5 hours.....7 hours of no nursing does seem a bit long (for the 2 week mark) to me just because it takes longer than that in my experience to get it all established. However, if you can get baby to stretch to 7 hours by six weeks, then Shocked

my hat is off to you!!

Also, to ensure a good supply, I liked to take alfalfa tablets, eat oatmeal for breakfast, and drink 3 quarts or more of water per day. You may want to be very careful of your water intake, especially in July if you live somewhere...like Texas where it will get to 103 degrees today here in Austin.

Hope that adds,

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 09:02:53 PM » by mommyjen

Every mom is different. You have to monitor how many nursing times a day are enough for YOUR baby's growth and YOUR milk supply. I personally feed my babies every two hours in the daytime the first two weeks. My babies are always back to their birth weight in a few days. It's critical to get in enough nursing the first few weeks especially, and then the first few months (as your body is establishing prolactin recptors) in order establish a healthy milk supply to breast feed long term. I know too many moms, including myself at one point, who 'lost their milk" prematurely doing BW. I had a close friend who regrets doing BW because her baby did not grow as well as he should have due to lack of calories. This is not always the case, but certainly note worthy. Babywise babies have failed to thrive.

I would definetly do the BW routine outlined for fussy, colicky babies the first few weeks and months of breastfeeding. The basics are not letting your baby get “too hungry“, so feeding every two hours. You can expect your baby to sleep through the night by 6 months with this schedule, but “it is not uncommon for babies to sleep through the night at 13-18 weeks“. I do know a mom of twins who nurses her babies every two hours during the day and they slept through the night very early on. A new quote, “It’s okay that your baby not follow the book exactly. No baby does.

Personally, I wouldn't plan to go more than 2 hours nursing during the day if my baby was sleeping through the night, which turns out to be before and after naps for us. But you could give it a try and just closely monitor your supply and baby. If he's growing and there's an abundant supply then you're fine. I wouldn't ever plan to go more than 3hr thats for sure in the day time, even if baby is nursing some at night.

Baby Wise Advice Linked to Dehydration, Failure to Thrive. by Matthew Aney, M.D. and the American Academy of Pediactrics. This can be found at http://www.ezzo.info/

HTH!

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 09:21:52 PM by mommyjen »
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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 09:21:33 PM » by yellowdaisy218

thanks to all of you for your replies! It's always nice to hear other mom's personal experiences. I've found w/my labor/delivery and 1st 2 weeks w/my baby....nothing seems to go by the book!

When I spoke to the ped., I told her that he eats about every 3 hours, and I usually have to awaken him to eat. She then asked if he's eating well, and is able to go a bit longer at night. She wasn't really 'concerned' about his weight gain b/c she said everything else looks great....so it's more just me. I'm assuming that if he were just totally not getting enough he'd be a whole lot fussier and be wanting to eat all the time. He seems to be a very content and laid-back baby. Even though I wake him during the day to eat, he's always ready to eat and eats pretty well.

We've only had 1 night so far, I think where he actually slept 7 hours. The norm has been closer to 5. Last night it was 4-5...he woke at 3:45....I fed him, put back to bed and he slept til 7:45....the rest of the day I woke him to eat every 3 hours. Today he has been eating better than normal....much more vigorous and consistent sucking...I have found as well yesterday and today that there's at least one feeding during the afternoon where he doesn't really nap in between and is ready closer to the 2 hour mark. I also do about 2 - 2 1/2 hours for the late night feeding...just so we can both go to bed a little earlier!

*Good reminder about the small amount of sun exposure....I will do that starting tomorrow...just getting a little on his tummy/back. Thanks for the reminder!

Due to my husband being diagnosed w/ulcerative colitis, our dairy intake is EXTREMELY minimal.....and he doesn't seem to have a problem w/my milk....my main concern was just how do I make sure I don't dry up prematurely....

Thanks for all the input, and if anyone else has any input in this area, please feel free to let me know!

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 09:31:23 PM » by mommyjen

Quote from: yellowdaisy218 on July 15, 2009, 09:21:33 PM

I'm assuming that if he were just totally not getting enough he'd be a whole lot fussier and be wanting to eat all the time.

I just wanted to point out that this isn't always the case. In fact, it's those "good" babies you may have to watch out for in regard to fail to thrive, becasue they do not seem to demand more calories. You do not want baby in a state of hunger (no matter the degree) as his development (epecially brain) suffers at these times. I do not want to scare you, but I does happen. Babies are sometimes trained to endure hunger. I did this to my first son who did scream from hunger, but it wasn't time to feed him yet. I just thought he was being demanding. Cry

Anyways, you are doing a GREAT job monitoring and getting a proffesional opinion!

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 09:34:50 PM by mommyjen »
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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 11:56:08 AM » by yellowdaisy218

mommyjen,
From everything I've read in BW, as well as the things online, there seem to be 2 extremes. "feed your baby when he cries" "don't feed your baby unless it's the 'scheduled time'" While I don't think that any 'method' or author is perfect or even right for everyone's lifestyle, I do think the basics of BW make a lot of sense. I've read and reread the book several times, and the key that many people seem to miss is that it is 'parent-directed', not clock or schedule directed. The key is the parental assessment...'is this a growth spurt', 'is there too much stimulation', etc. Yes, there is routine, but flexibility is also necessary, which is what we are attempting to do. The schedule gives me comfort when he takes a good nap during the day, so I know that while he's so young, I need to wake him up so he can eat enough. It also helps me look for other problems first when he's fussy, and I don't think he's hungry. i.e. yesterday he was extremely fussy in his bed and I was wondering if he really was hungry right after he just ate...then my husband asked "do you think he needs his diaper changed?" sure enough...it was VERY messy....i would cry, too, if I were expected to sleep in that!...then he was still fussier than usual, so instead of waiting for the 3 hour mark, I fed him after 2 hr. 15 min. He seems to be getting in the extra feedings that he needs...b/c he usually goes 3 hours between feedings, but there are usually 2x's during the day that he eats closer to 2 or 2 1/2 hours..So, I don't just let him cry and cry and cry because I know he thinks he's hungry. Although, this is just my first, and I really have no experience or other children to compare him to! Thanks for your encouragement on my monitoring his growth. :-) and for your own experience as well. He seems to be eating better and more alert these last few days. :-)

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 04:05:37 PM » by aireachail

Yellowdaisy,

It sounds like you are doing a great job remaining balanced. I couldn't agree with you more... a baby's feeding and sleeping schedule should be "parent-directed" in an understanding manner.

I tend to be too unscheduled with our kids, and I know I need to create more of a routine. That said, however, our kids adapt easily to a variety of schedules because our lives are so flexible. If I need to run an errand during naptime, or feed them early or late, they do fine. I think having a flexible routine is the best way to go (i.e. more scheduled than I've always been, less rigid than some BabyWisers).

Also, even our 3 month old falls asleep fairly easily on his own. If he needs to be snuggled to sleep now and then, or falls asleep while eating, it's no big deal. He knows how to fall asleep on his own and he'll do it just fine next time. For me as the mom of a young baby, getting enough sleep is a huge sanity-saver, and I'll gladly be flexible to achieve that result.

There is SO much to be said for consistency, but as you've pointed out, if a parent is so hung up on the "rules" and "advice" and "schedule" that they can't make their own decisions, they will have problems. We shouldn't let our babies rule the roost, but there's no use in making them feel like they have to scream in exasperation just to let us know they're hungry, either!

It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with your little one! May God continue to bless you with wisdom on how to raise him!

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 04:19:23 PM » by cjanderin

Yellowdaisy, it sounds to me like you have the whole babywise thing going fine. The biggest key is to remember the order: feed, then wake, then sleep. Hope all goes well

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 02:06:51 PM » by lovetoreadmom

Okay, I need some HELP!! I am currently nursing my 3rd, who is quite a healthy baby. He is now 8 1/2 mo, and weighs about 20+lbs. At six months, I started him on basic rice cereal, and little by little, I've added a veggie or fruit that I've put in the baby food grinder and then put in his cereal. I've always nursed him first, and then given solids, and he's done really well with this. However, b/c he's my 3rd and so often times things get pushed back, it seems like my milk supply has really waned. Sad

I've started taking Brewer's yeast, kelp, and kept up my Super Mom and Cal/Mag supplements. My diet has not been bad, but not the greatest either as it's been in the past with my other two. I am on a mini-pill (DH's request) and I've now gotten what seems to be my first p*riod.

Is there any way to get my milk supply back? I've been pumping every two hours or so during the day, and many times I'll get anywhere from 1/2 an ounce to 1-1/2 ounces from both sides together. Huh

What I pump I've been putting in a bottle (combining several times of pumping) and he LOVES to take that, so I don't know whether to keep on going (which I want to do) or switch to formula. Finances are tight right now, so I'm sure the stress of that is not helping but it's also a motivation to keep trying.

Oh, I've looked in Babywise, but I'm not seeing anything about this, esp. for his age group.

Any suggestions?? TIA

LTRM

« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 02:09:21 PM by lovetoreadmom »
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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 03:35:04 PM » by floydian

I wouldn't go longer than 4 hours between nursing. If I wanted more milk, I would:
1. Nurse a little more frequently.
2. I'd also add fenugreek and alfalfa.
3. Make sure I was getting a good omega 3 fatty acid (cod liver oil)
4. Drink at least 6-8 oz of water a day preferably with lemon
5. Try to make sure I was getting enough calories myself (nursing takes 500/day)

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2009, 03:47:17 PM » by lovetoreadmom

Thanks, mommyM and floydian, for your suggestions. Sounds like fenugreek is something I need to add. I took it with my 2nd baby (it was in BHS's Mama's Milk Tea), but I've not been able to get any lately. As I said, finances are tight, so if you would pray for that I would appreciate it.

Also, floydian, what do you suggest to make sure I'm getting enough calories? Can you give me some suggestions for meals, snacks, etc? Thanks for much! (Hey, floydian. Are you still in AL?)

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2009, 06:46:09 PM » by floydian

Quote from: lovetoreadmom on August 26, 2009, 03:47:17 PM

Also, floydian, what do you suggest to make sure I'm getting enough calories? Can you give me some suggestions for meals, snacks, etc? Thanks for much! (Hey, floydian. Are you still in AL?)

Chocolate!!! Cheesy

No....good fats, good carbs, protein. Actually good chocolate is probably a decent source of calories.

I haven't moved in awhile. Wink

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2009, 08:59:18 PM » by KristenA

Quote from: lovetoreadmom on August 26, 2009, 02:06:51 PM

I am on a mini-pill (DH's request) and I've now gotten what seems to be my first p*riod.

Any suggestions?? TIA

LTRM

I've talked to several moms who said the mini-pill immediately decreased their milk supply.
That would be my first and foremost guess as to the 'why' your supply has waned.

I don't know of a way to fix that though..... other than the obvious.

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2009, 11:07:54 PM » by lovetoreadmom

Quote from: KristenA on August 26, 2009, 08:59:18 PM

Quote from: lovetoreadmom on August 26, 2009, 02:06:51 PM

I am on a mini-pill (DH's request) and I've now gotten what seems to be my first p*riod.

Any suggestions?? TIA

LTRM

Believe me, I would LOVE to come off. However, DH is not really interested in having any more right now . . . says he's satisfied with three. I would love another one, though.

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2009, 10:05:52 AM » by blsd2bhome

Not sure how helpful this will be for you, considering you have a 14 month old, but I wanted to share what worked for me!

When my last son was born in March, my milk just did not seem to come in alot...not sure why either.. I started taking alfalfa (after trying many other things) and that helped a lot. However, I also started "wearing" him around the house in a wrap. He was next to my chest, facing me for a couple of hours a day. I really think that helped the most..I say that because whenever I carry him in a wrap (church, shopping) I am always ready to nurse him sooner than when I do not carry him. Since doing that, he is now a chubby, happy baby!

I do not practice attachment parenting or anything, I just like the way I can carry him in a wrap instead of holding him. I saw one website that recommended more contact to increase milk supply and tried it.

So, this might not be practical for you to carry around a 14 mo, but this is definitely a cheaper, and immediate helpful thing to do!

Kindly,
blsd2bhome

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2009, 05:43:25 PM » by mommyM

Quote from: lovetoreadmom on August 26, 2009, 03:47:17 PM

Also, floydian, what do you suggest to make sure I'm getting enough calories? Can you give me some suggestions for meals, snacks, etc? Thanks for much! (Hey, floydian. Are you still in AL?)

Baked Oatmeal!! Healthy, and helps the milk supply and saves money!

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Re: how many feedings do I need to get in to keep up my milk supply?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2009, 05:48:33 PM » by lotsaboys