Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.

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Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« on: November 01, 2008, 05:52:36 PM » by FindingMe

I didn't find a thread that really addressed this issue in depth, so I'm starting this one.

From what I understand, Dr. Christopher used to use comfrey internally on his patients all the time, and I never read of any bad side effects, but... now they don't include comfrey in his internal formulations anymore. So...

Toxic or not?

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2008, 09:40:48 PM » by born-an-okie

I have wondered about this myself. I really like the explanation given in the book Practical Herbalism. I have taken it internally a few times. Once for a sore throat that was so awful I was desperately trying everything I could think of. It was the one thing that work wonders for me. The pain relief from gargling then drinking the tea was almost instant and lasted a long time. I have also read of other people's experience with this for various things. I have never read of a negative personal experience, but my knowledge is limited. Here is the what is in Practical Herbalism.
"The FDA advises against taking Comfrey internally, due to the presence of trace amounts of pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PA's). In contrast, data published in the journal, Science, by noted biochemist Bruce Ames, Ph.D., of U.C. Berkeley, would indicate that Comfrey taken internally is less toxic or carcinogenic than an equivalent amount of beer. It is probably NOT wise to make Comfrey, or beer, a significant part of your regular diet for an extended period of time."

Every time I read this, it makes me laugh. Maybe there is newer research that shows a greater threat from internal use. I'm interested to see what others know!

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 04:18:02 AM » by Kitty

Born-an-okie,
I chuckle when I read that, too. Cheesy

It seems that the cautions are important for people w/ liver damage, as well as those who are PG or nursing. I wouldn't hesitate to use it, if it were the best option for a situation.

Checking out some sites of my favorite people on comfrey (James Duke, Mountain Rose Herbals, Richo Cech, Susun Weed):
http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezine/June08/wisewoman.htm ***

http://www.thenhf.com/health_freedom_news/hfn_84/hfn_84.htm

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/comfrey_leaf.php

http://methowvalleyherbs.blogspot.com/2008/03/blood-blisters-and-cottonwood-buds.html

An excerpt:

Quote

Comfrey has indeed gained some negative attention lately in regards to its pyrrolizidine alkaloids. While the root assuredly contains strong toxins not meant for heavy internal use, the leaf has been internally used for centuries. The studies which condemned comfrey to its current notoriety involved feeding rats a diet that was 33% comfrey. To date there are two possible reported poisonings from ingesting comfrey leaf, in both of which comfrey was consumed in very high quantities. Botanist James Duke, Ph.D., reports that one cup of wine is 144 times more cancer promoting that an equal amount of comfrey leaf infusion. If harvesting this herb yourself for internal use be sure to triple check that you are harvesting Symphytum uplandica (according to Weed, many of the varieties of comfrey are misnamed symphytum, but are indeed uplandica. The uplandica species will have purple flowers). Symphytum uplandica has the lowest amount of pyrrolizidine alkaloids.

http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Symphytum+officinale

http://www.horizonherbs.com/pilot.asp?pg=comfrey_root

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 11:32:59 AM » by blessedmama

Quote from: born-an-okie on November 01, 2008, 09:40:48 PM

Every time I read this, it makes me laugh. Maybe there is newer research that shows a greater threat from internal use. I'm interested to see what others know!

[/color]

I was talking with our Naturopath on Wednesday and our 14 yr dd crashed her dirt bike back in July which ended up with a trip to the ER for multiple x-rays etc. She thought she had broke some ribs but nothing showed up on the chest x-ray. Well she reinjured that area last week and over the course of the last few months of the accident her ribs have been "popping/clicking" when she laughs. I had made some strong Comfrey tea for her and the Naturopath said that since she was young and probably hadn't done much damage to her liver to have her approx 5 cups of tea a day. She has drank 1/2 gallon since Wed night and there are no ill effects. The Dr. also said that one of her secretary's (and she is an older gal) had broken some ribs from falling off a horse and she drank 10 cups of Comfrey tea in 24 hours and the ribs were healed in two weeks as opposed to a few months. HTH

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 06:12:03 PM » by daisey

I found the same quote about the (PA's) in one of my herb books----------it also questioned whether this was from environmental toxins. Then it recommended using an organically grown source for a short amount of time. That said, i have used it in tea and not had any side affects. I also put it in a salve that I made and it is amazing!!! Guess I would use it with caution.........like all things herbal.

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 09:36:27 AM » by FindingMe

Thank you! These are exactly the kind of answers I was looking for. It's always nice to hear that someone else has tried it and hasn't dropped dead yet. Grin

I especially liked the article on thenhf.com, and was very interested in the PA-free comfrey extracts that it mentioned. I plan to look into those more. Thanks, Yooper!

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 10:18:41 AM » by ladyhen

My family and I have used comfrey internally for different things. It is a component in a formula given to me by an herbalist friend for a healing tea for asthma. My Man took the tea on a regular basis for a couple of years. Most recently, I took comfrey tea for a couple of months to help with healing broken bones.

I wonder if there is some protection from possible liver damage by also taking silymarin, milk thistle seed? It is supposed to provide cellular barrier protection from toxins in the liver.
http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_thistle_milk.htm

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2009, 03:29:53 PM » by Kitty

I have come to the conclusion, after much reading, that the roots are the main source of the PAs. The leaves, I think, are fine for tea drinking.

I still have yet to try it, though. Roll Eyes

I'm reading that Comfrey is one of very few edible plants w/ B12.

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2009, 06:38:02 PM » by Pennie

Quote from: ladyhen on November 03, 2008, 10:18:41 AM

When I was telling my pastors wife about using the comfrey poultice on my knee she mentioned that man, I believe she knew in Hungary(they used to be missionaries)drank comfrey tea when he had bronchial issues. Said it tasted horrible but it was the only thing that helped.........

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2009, 06:45:44 PM » by herbalmom

Quote from: FindingMe on November 03, 2008, 09:36:27 AM

Thank you! These are exactly the kind of answers I was looking for. It's always nice to hear that someone else has tried it and hasn't dropped dead yet. Grin

As far as using comfrey internally & not dropping dead, my mom used comfrey root internally in large amounts daily for a year & then a smaller amount daily for another year after that. That was during 1991 & 2 (before the warning came out) & she lived with no apparent liver damage until she passed away from fungal breast cancer in 2007. If it had trashed her liver I'm sure it would have shown up sometime- either during the time she was taking it or during the 15 years she lived after she used it.

My mom had been in 2 serious home fires in a short period & it had badly damaged her lungs. She had to be propped up when she was in bed or she couldn't breath & just talking was enough to leave her short of breath. The Drs had told her that nothing could be done, that she would just have to live with it & she would end up with Emphysema, on oxygen & would probably die from it.

I lived in another state & the only 2 herb books I owned at the time were Today's Herbal Health & ABC Herbal. We didn't have a health food store near by so I couldn't research product lines (pre-internet) & I was fairly new to herbs so I didn't know what to recommend but knew there HAD to be herbs that would help. By the grace of God I had a pamphlet from ONE herb company that described all of their formulas. It just happened to be Nature's Herbs which bases most of their formulas on Dr Christopher's formulas. The names back then for many herbal formulas wasn't as much of a clue as to what the formula is used for as they tend to be now so I had to go through each formula's ingredient's in my books until I figured out which formula she needed. She once I narrowed it down to CL 7 (which I realized later stands for Clear Lungs & the formula has 7 herbs) & told her over the phone to get ONLY that brand, that formula b/c I had NO idea what else might be a good choice. Wink

The formula now contains Mullein Leaves, Chickweed Herb, Marshmallow Root, Slippery Elm Bark, White Pine Bark, Elecampane Root and Hyssop but then it contained comfrey & I 99% sure that it was the first ingred. Also, I know that it contained only 7 herbs even then- I'm pretty sure that it's the Elecampane that's replaced the comfrey so it's still 7 herbs.

Per the instructions in my herb books she took 4 caps 4 times a day. At 16 caps a day she went through a 100 ct bottle every 6 days which added up in price but it was SO worth it. Within a short time she started coughing up black, sooty goop that smelled like smoke which was hard on her but as more of that junk got out of her lungs her breathing improved. Cheesy

Within a few months she didn't need to be propped on bunches of pillows to sleep, talking didn't leave her short of breath, etc.

She took 16 caps a day for a full year. After that she took 4 at bedtime for another year. By the end of the 2 years the only time she had problems was if she got exposed to a lot of dust (dust had bothered her for years before this) or was around A LOT of ciggy smoke. From the near the end of the fist year treatment until she passed away most of the time she lived with anywhere from 1 to several smokers that unfortunately all smoked in the house. Even with all that she could handle the normal amount of second hand smoke even as early as the second year of treating it- it was only if there was a lot of smoke that she would wheeze. When that happened she would get out of the smoke & take 4 CL 7 & the wheezing would go away. She always kept CL 7 around for a few years in case she needed it but eventually she didn't need it any more at all.

So that's our experience with it for what it's worth. Blessings ~herbalmom

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 11:30:29 AM » by Suchender

Ok everyone is talking about Comfery tea......but what about drying comfery and puting it into capsules yourself?
My husband had an accident with a dune buggy about 2 years ago,and has had chest pain ever since.....and he wouldn't drink the tea.
Would it be safe to to use capsules?

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2009, 12:24:47 AM » by wyomama3

Dr. Christophers had to quit using it because it is unlawful to have comfrey in their internal formulas. One of the compounds of comfrey, isolated, is toxic internally. I am sure this is the case with isolated compounds of many plants. Comfrey as a whole is still considered safe, as their are many components that make up a living plant. I use it internally with no reservation. If the law would change Dr. Christophers would add comfrey back, and they have lobbied to do so.

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2009, 10:40:51 PM » by Suchender

Quote from: wyomama3 on July 04, 2009, 12:24:47 AM

Very interseting,
I'v heard its bad for the liver, but yet there is no pruff and nobody has made any claims against comfery.
Maybe its a conspiracy to get all the herb lovers scared.Just a thought.

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2009, 07:01:09 AM » by Kitty

I think the PAs are the part that *can* hurt the liver, w/ highest concentration in the roots...probably as an isolated component.

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_comfrey.htm discusses this...

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2009, 01:50:40 PM » by Suchender

Quote from: Yooper on July 05, 2009, 07:01:09 AM

I think the PAs are the part that *can* hurt the liver, w/ highest concentration in the roots...probably as an isolated component.

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_comfrey.htm discusses this...

Very interesting link, I didn't really want to read it b/c it was so long , but then couldn't stop myself.

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2009, 04:46:07 PM » by Kitty

I was having a hard time quoting just the relevant stuff...here it is now:

Quote

Although comfrey has been one of the most common herbs sold to the American public over the past thirty years, there is reason to believe that using comfrey internally is definitely hazardous to the health. All comfrey species investigated have been found to contain hepatotoxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PAs), but the literature on the subject is confused due to a glaring lack of attention to proper botanical identification of the various Symphytum species studied. Common comfrey contains principally 7-acetylintermedine and 7-acetylly-copsamine in addition to their unacetylated precursors and symphytine. It does not contain high levels of echimidine, probably the most toxic comfrey PA. Echimidine has been identified, along with symphytine and six other PAs, in Russian comfrey. Russian comfrey was heavily promoted in the back-to-the-land movement, and most of the comfrey cultivated in home gardens is the Russian hybrid. The former alkaloid is also present in prickly comfrey. Comfrey root contains about ten times the concentration of PAs found in the leaves.

...

Pyrrolizidine alkaloids - Research shows that, as isolated substances, the pyrrolizidine alkaloids are highly toxic to the liver. It is still unclear whether they are toxic in the context of the whole plant, as they are only present in minute amounts, often being completely absent from samples of dried aerial parts. The highest concentration is in the root and, until its safety is confirmed (or denied), comfrey root should not be used internally. (The aerial parts are considered safe.) The legitimate question mark over comfrey's safety as a medicine needs to be balanced by a deeper understanding of its therapeutic properties.

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2009, 10:35:48 PM » by Suchender

Thax for that info yooper Wink

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Re: Comfrey - to use internally or not, that is the question.
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2009, 04:18:31 PM » by herb fever

Some more links for research:

http://www.medherb.com/Materia_Medica/Symphytum_-_Hepatotoxicity_of_pyrrolizidine_alkaloids_.htm

http://www.herbcraft.org/hoffmanncomfrey.html

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/blog/livertoxic-pas.html

http://www.medherb.com/Materia_Medica/Symphytum_-_Comfrey,_Coltsfoot,_and_Pyrrolizidine_Alkaloids.htm

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