Whole Wheat Bread Problems

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2007, 09:49:51 PM » by createddaisy

I had a quick question on rolls. At our other house I had no problems getting my dinner rolls to rise. We have moved into a new house and I cannot get a single batch to raise. My bread looks great, cinnamon rolls look great. All but the dinner rolls? Anyone have any idea what I could be doing wrong? I have been making bread for over 5 years and this has me stumped. I have adjusted the yeast, water, rise time, ect. to no avail. Thanks for the help!

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2007, 02:36:30 PM » by Badgermom

Quote from: createddaisy on October 27, 2007, 09:49:51 PM

I have one possible suggestion. Are you using a bread recipe or a recipe specifically for rolls? A bread manual I've read suggests using more butter or oil for a roll recipe. It makes a softer dough, but the dough doesn't have to support a whole loaf, so it is fine. I made some rolls last week that were wonderful, and I did notice that the recipe call for about twice the amount of butter that my loaf recipe calls for. Maybe that will help.

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2007, 02:53:34 PM » by ShabbyChic

Did you move to a different elevation or is it a different oven? Has the weather been drastically different? My nana always scolds me for baking bread when it's damp, even though I've not seen that affect my bread.

When I cook things in my mom's oven it takes exactly what is called for in the time of the recipe. When I cook ANYTHING in my own oven, it cooks way faster. I ruined some food when we moved here 6 mos. ago.

Are you using an oil that's particularly dense? I know when I bake banana bread (more cake like) I use olive oil, but when I make a loaf of wheat bread, I use sunflower oil because olive oil is too dense. Popeye had the same problem with Olive, though... Wink

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2007, 09:42:24 PM » by createddaisy

I use coconut oil in my bread. We are in the same area. New ovens though. I use more yeast in rolls than bread. They just end up about a half inch thick. They don't get any bigger. it's not the oven. I can't get them to rise enough to put them in the oven. When I form the balls it is like they spread out but don't rise. They flatten instead. Undecided

I use the prairie gold. Maybe soft white would be better? I always used red wheat but didn't think the prairie gold would be much different. The red isn't working either. The weather isn't to different. Just getting cooler! I know humidity affects my bread but we don't have any humidity now.

Any more thoughts? Thanks!

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2007, 09:48:47 AM » by Maria/NHM

Maybe check your yeast by putting some in warm water with a little sugar to see how active it is?

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2007, 12:25:52 AM » by Nathan G

maybe a little late to post to this, but after proofing the rolls do you wash them with a little water and/or xvo oil and bake them with steam?

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2007, 10:27:50 AM » by createddaisy

Umm? How do you bake them with steam?

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2007, 12:26:05 PM » by SarahK

Quote from: createddaisy on November 07, 2007, 10:27:50 AM

Umm? How do you bake them with steam?

French Bread is usually cooked with steam. YOu put a shallow pan of boiling water in the bottom of the oven with the bread you intend to bake. The temps are usually pretty high if I remember right (over the standard 350 deg F). Then, as you put the bread in the oven, you spray water around the sides of the hot oven to make it all steamy in there. It is done to make the crusts thicker & crisper.

Sarah K

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2007, 02:19:01 PM » by cecac

Quote from: SarahK on November 07, 2007, 12:26:05 PM

Quote from: createddaisy on November 07, 2007, 10:27:50 AM

Umm? How do you bake them with steam?

I've done it with homemade french bread. Poured boiling water in a pan under the bread as you put the bread in. Leave the pan of water in for like the first five minutes. You spray the sides with water when you first put it in and then once or twice more, like a minute or two apart, then you reduce the heat after five minutes.

I can get the directions if you need them. Never done it with a whole wheat bread, though Undecided

.

I do think the crust of the french bread was more authentic, if you will, when steamed. I did it once without that and I'm thinking it didn't brown quite the same and the crust was tougher, not chewy and crusty. Oh my goodness, that was a perfect meal the time I did that. My mom made french onion soup. I made the bread that day. Oh I bet we have to do this New Years!!

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2007, 11:01:31 PM » by Nathan G

with rolls I would bake that at about 450 degrees. To add steam I just throw two handfuls of ice in the bottom of my oven at the beginning of baking. Adding steam delays the formation of crust so that the bread dough can fully expand. This could be what is keeping the rolls from raising. Also if they are whole wheat there is less gluten may need to add a hard wheat that has more protein in it to the dough

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2007, 08:43:25 AM » by createddaisy

Thanks! I never heard of doing this.
I will have to try it!

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2009, 03:16:33 PM » by Mrs. B

HELP! I've just started letting my bread dough sponge before mixing it, and it just isn't turning out right...
Normally I'm not very picky as long as things are edible, but the bread is too soft.... like to the point of just falling apart when you try to pick up a slice. It is impossible to eat a sandwich without a fork!
I also use half water and half buttermilk as my liquids FYI.
Any recommendations before I go back to my old sponge-less recipe...

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2009, 02:46:37 PM » by Mrs. B

Bump!

Quote from: Mrs. B on March 25, 2009, 03:16:33 PM

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2009, 09:02:51 AM » by kamom

Are you making your dough stiff enough? is it coming clean on the side of the bowl when you knead it? I always let mine sponge. I don't think the buttermilk should make a differance.
Or maybe you're not kneading it long enough. The kneading make it elasticy and that make it stick together better. Undecided

can anyone else help

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2009, 03:01:57 PM » by koco

Quote from: Mrs. B on March 25, 2009, 03:16:33 PM

I have the same problem! I let it soak overnight and it never turns out when i do that. If i don't soak it turns out great. Undecided

I"m afraid to try it again because i waste so many ingredients because i can't stand eating it when it's falling apart.

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2009, 08:47:49 PM » by Mrs. B

Quote from: kamom on April 01, 2009, 09:02:51 AM

can anyone else help

It does pull away from the sides of the bowl when I knead it. I'm not the most experienced bread maker and while I do watch the bread to make sure the gluten seems to be developing, I also time it.
Thanks for the input....

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2009, 03:45:17 PM » by 4myhoonie

has anyone here had the experience of "over kneading" their dough? i have this ugly dough happen to me a lot, and i think i may be over doing the kneading time on speed 2 in my Bosch. i kneaded it for 10 mi this time for a recipe that has 11 cups of flour. it rose beautifully twice, then in the pan it fell and it has sort of a funky, holey texture. anyone? i have been so bad at breadbaking i wonder why i even keep on trying....... Roll Eyes

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2009, 04:02:24 PM » by miff aka Missi

Quote from: 4myhoonie on July 24, 2009, 03:45:17 PM

I have a recipe that is fresh ground whole wheat. It say to knead for 4 1/2 minutes on speed 2 in the Bosch. I don't know what the outcome is for overkneading, but that may be the problem. Are you using a specific recipe that tells you to knead for 10 minutes?

And it says to rise the dough twice? Mine only says to rise once.

Missi

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2009, 04:13:10 PM » by Maria/NHM

Using a specific time for how long to knead whole wheat bread can be tricky because it won't always be the same. You want to knead your bread until you can take a small ball of dough and stretch it out silky thin and it feels smooth and doesn't break. It should stretch flat and thin like paper but not as thin as paper ofcourse. This means the gluten is fully developed. You will get the best rise from well kneaded bread but just a minute or two too long and the bread can be over kneaded. You can usually tell it is over kneaded when it turns too soft and stringy and bakes saggy and full of holes. hth

after re-reading your post I wonder if your bread might be over rising? How many rises do you give it total? I found it worked best to give my dough two rises and one final rise in the pan. If the first rise times are too long it won't handle a long rise before baking. Better to put it in the over sooner and have it not as fluffy than to have it fall.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 04:18:10 PM by Ella »
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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2009, 08:01:22 PM » by 4myhoonie

Quote from: Ella on July 24, 2009, 04:13:10 PM

the first part of your answer was what i was trying to accomplish. i took it out and made a "window pane" but it never did work great, i just gave up and went ahead and baked it. i have never had great luck with more than one rise, but the recipe said 2 and one in the pan, so that's what i did. i think what you said about stringy and saggy and full of tiny holes, especially on top.

thanks for you gals help, i think i will try closer to this time next time!

Quote from: miff aka Missi on July 24, 2009, 04:02:24 PM

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2009, 06:35:14 PM » by petrimama

Quote from: 4myhoonie on July 24, 2009, 03:45:17 PM

I also think it sounds like over-risen bread. The bread should be just doubled, still full and plump. If you poke it, it should leave a mark but not deflate the whole loaf. If it is starting to sink on its own, you have let it go too long. I have also never tried the extra rise cycle that you are using. Perhaps cutting that out would yield a better texture? Is it a recipe that you or others have had success with before?
Try reading Laurel's Bread Book. It is a great resource.
If you figure it out, let us know what works. Good luck! ~L

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2009, 08:40:40 PM » by 4myhoonie

Quote from: petrimama on July 26, 2009, 06:35:14 PM

Quote from: 4myhoonie on July 24, 2009, 03:45:17 PM

it was a friend's recipe that i was trying, that she always does 3 rises. it was ugly dough even before rising though. i am moving on to a different recipe of sourdough, no mixer necessary! it seems me and my bosch aren't friendly for bread! Wink

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2009, 08:25:23 AM » by petrimama

Could it be that your starter is not at its prime? Or maybe you aren't using whole grain flour for the starter? Is it whole wheat flour? I recently (accidentally) discovered that other grains often cannot be directly substituted for whole wheat recipes because the texture will be off. Perhaps until you find a recipe that works, you could cut it to make one loaf at a time.
And don't be discouraged. Sourdough is hard to get the hang of...actually bread is hard to get the hang of. It took me 6 years to get whole wheat bread that my husband deemed "store quality!" (I know that was strangely supposed to be a compliment.) Grin

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2009, 09:20:11 AM » by 4myhoonie

LOL, yup, still plugging away. i fed it with fresh ground wheat. the starter was weak, and i didn't knead long enough.

i had great success with my first batch after receiving my starter from Carl's friends. so i am ordering a new one from them. somehow it has gotten weak, not sure if it's from keeping it in the frig too much or what. going to try 1/2 a four loaf batch from that recipe today.

definitely need to be persistent! thanks for your help!

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2009, 02:21:33 PM » by Linda1958

I used a bread machine before but it didn't really work with whole grain flour. The coarser the flour, the more water it needs and the longer the fermentation process should take place. With that I mean, use sourdough plus yeast and let it sit over night. I will post the basic wheat recipe on my website soon http://wheatandsourdough.com
It your flour is so coarse, try grinding it a little in the food processor. Watch out that it doesn't get too warm. You can send me an email from my website also, maybe I can help you out finding the right recipe for your flour. Cheesy

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2009, 09:01:27 PM » by Linda1958

did you try baking with sourdough? go to my webpage, I have lots of pictures / bread baked with whole grain and sourdough.

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2009, 05:30:37 PM » by 4myhoonie

hi Linda, i was making it with my Bosch, i have just went back to basic ww bread and it's fine. i may try sourdough some other time, just not right now. thanks! Christy

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2009, 05:53:09 PM » by FarmWife

Quote from: Linda1958 on October 20, 2009, 09:01:27 PM

did you try baking with sourdough? go to my webpage, I have lots of pictures / bread baked with whole grain and sourdough.

I looked at the pictures. When you say whole grains, are you talking freshly ground, or buying whole grain flours?

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2009, 04:37:52 PM » by Linda1958

with whole grain I mean freshly ground flour from grains, like wheat berries, rye, barley. The nurtrients will be fresh and the taste in just better.

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Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2009, 09:45:34 PM » by 4myhoonie

So i've been watching these videos, numbered 1-8
anybody know this gal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMN6wAfWXiQ&feature=related

it's the same recipe i'm using, with the addition of dough enhancer (i haven't been getting it cuz of the expense) and she uses 2 c. of high gluten flour (is this the same thing as bread flour?) and i use wheat gluten (1/3 of a cup). so what i'm trying to figure out, is if this "high gluten" flour is not whole grain (i'm assuming it's white) what can i use in place of it? her loaves are sooooo high compared to mine. another small difference is that she heaps her yeast and salt and i haven't been. anyway, i'm going to check to see if she uses 8 or 10 in. loaf pans, she had the norpro ones and 3 stoneware ones. they take a bit more dough. it looked to me like she had a much bigger pile of dough than i end up with. i can post the recipe if you are interested or not sure if you've used it before.

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