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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2009, 09:32:57 AM » by 4myhoonie
after checking into ingredients for dough enhancer, i can't use it anyway. i am allergic to corn and dairy, and trying to avoid them at all costs.  both are listed in it and in all the recipes i found so far.  i was thinking about making this recipe without those two ingredients.

http://www.ellenskitchen.com/recipebox/breadbuilder.html

Breadbuilder: Ellen's Bread Dough Enhancer

2 cups vital wheat gluten

1 cup potato starch or potato flakes

1 package jelly pectin powder (Sure Jell) (corn)

1 cup lecithin granules

3 T powdered ascorbic acid

2 T ginger powder

1 cup non-instant powdered milk or whey powder (optional) (dairy)

1/2 cup diastatic malt powder

1 envelope unflavored gelatin (optional) (corn?)


idk, but i am already using 1/3 c. wheat gluten. why are my loaves so wimpy and they don't rise very well?
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"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2009, 09:55:25 PM » by brightspot
Do you mean you are making regular yeast bread or sour dough? If you are making plain old bread, here is the recipe that I use and have used for about 20 years.

I use Hard White Wheat berries for grinding into flour. I have a K'tec mill and I grind it on the coarsest grind for when I make yeast bread.

I buy my yeast at Sam's club (2 one pound pkgs sold together) and keep unopened pkg in freezer, opened one in fridge.

In my Bosch I put, and mix well:
2/3 cup oil
2/3 cup honey
5 cup flour
1 Tbls salt
3 heaping Tbls of vital gluten
5 1/3 cup hot water (hot from the tap-not heated extra!)

Add 3 1/2 rounded Tbls of yeast and mix well

Now just keep adding flour one scoop at a time until the sides of the bowl come clean. Put the lid on tight and knead (on #2) for 6 minutes.

While it is kneading, I oil my pans. I make four 8"loaves and 12 hamburger buns usually.

When kneading is complete, I divide into pans (without rising first), put the buns in the fridge to rise slower and let the loaves rise about 10 minutes, turn on oven to preheat (350 degrees) and when it is hot, I put the bread in to cook (25-30 min). I cook the loaves first and then the buns (about 20 min). The rising time varies according to the time of year (meaning the temp. in my kitchen).

Hope you find great success in your bread making soon!

This recipe gives me the best texture of any bread I've made. We use it for sandwiches and toast and just to eat. Anyone who makes bread that has mine has taken home this recipe.
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2009, 11:21:14 PM » by 4myhoonie
i'm just dumbfounded that each person's recipe i see is SO similar to what i am doing and i somehow manage to mess it up.  i will try it exactly like yours and see what happens.  i've been eating "ok" bread for 5 years with an occasional spike into really good.  i did make sourdough for a while, but just got fed up with using up flour (berries) so fast.  thanks for the recipe, i will give it a go.  just baked 12 ok loaves Sat. 
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"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2009, 08:40:29 AM » by hi_itsgwen
hoonie, don't feel bad...bread making is not like other baking at all. 
I read a blog where the woman has been making bread with her *excellent* recipe for years, and then they moved to another state, and the recipe wouldn't work for her.  She had to experiment with different ideas to tweak it for her new climate. 
Her hubby is a science head, and he stepped in and helped her figure out what each ingredient does, and how to tweak it. (www.tammysrecipes.com)

One of my good friends swears that even humidity changes alter the way the flour absorbs water, so she does her finishing kneading by hand instead of using the bread machine so she can get a 'feel' for the dough.
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2009, 12:35:40 PM » by 4myhoonie
thanks gwen! it is just so frustrating! i've even had personal lessons from friends, and all my friends have these big beautiful loaves, and then there's me.  5 years of experience & ugly bread.  i'm doomed!  Tongue Roll Eyes
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"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2009, 03:59:27 PM » by brightspot
Quote from: 4myhoonie on November 02, 2009, 12:35:40 PM
thanks gwen! it is just so frustrating! i've even had personal lessons from friends, and all my friends have these big beautiful loaves, and then there's me.  5 years of experience & ugly bread.  i'm doomed!  Tongue Roll Eyes

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time of doing bread. I had a friend once that was trying to learn to make bread and she said, "I've come to the conclusion that making bread is a relationship." She too was having good batches and not so good batches. I have some batches that are better than others too but for the most part, they all turn out pretty good. Hope you have great success soon!
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2009, 10:57:55 PM » by Linda1958
why is that? You can learn to bake bread. I teach people how to bake sourdough bread / whole wheat only. Everybody learned it. They are having fun too. Sourdough bread baking is pretty easy, once you know the steps to take. It's a 4 hour process but you can be very flexible. I start out with the sponge and let it sit for at least 30 min. I start in the morning, after I did the sponge, I go and take a shower or make phone calles. Then I make the dough and let it sit for at least 1 hour. Usually I go shopping / can take up to 2 hours. When I come home, the dough is wonderful, doubled in size, smells good and good to go. I form a loaf (usually I make 4 different kind of bread), let it rise for 20 min. preheat the oven and than I bake the bread.
Also, it takes 4 hours from start to finish, I am not working with the dough for 4 hours. I have a lot of free time in between for other work that needs to be done. Sometimes I get interrupted and I put the dough into the fridge / over night. It make the dough even better.
Don't give up, you can do it and the health benefit is great, not to meantion the compliments you get from your family and friends.
You could check out my website, if you want, see all the wonderful bread picuture.  http://wheatandsourdough.com
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2009, 05:15:20 PM » by petrimama
I think a relationship is the perfect way to describe bread making.  I began with a recipe and learned the purpose of each ingredient, then I tweaked for several years until I got it right.  Then I tossed the recipe (except for measuring the yeast) and began doing everything by eye and feel, and my bread has never been better.
I think understanding and experience are the first prerequisites to success, but really, in the end, it comes down to getting the feel for the bread you like.  Start with a recipe you have eaten and liked at someone else's home.  Then see what yours turns out like, and what you would like to improve.  Then read up on what gives bread the qualities you desire, and play with it a bit.
You are NOT doomed!  Don't give up!   ~L
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2009, 07:23:25 PM » by 4myhoonie
well, i am not giving up, too stubborn for that.  i have had beautiful loaves on several occasions in the last 5 years, and some even fairly consistently, but eventually something always happens. 

Linda, i have checked out your site a bit.  maybe i will again.  where did you get your starter from and how much do you feed it?  i think my problems got worse with mine over time. i started out with starter from carlsfriends and it worked great for a while.  i was trying to make a 4 loaf batch every week and it just required so much feeding that i would run out of wheat too fast, and got somewhat stingy with feeding it.  also, i didn't like how thick the starter was when i fed it what the guy said on http://www.sourdoughhome.com/100percentwholewheat.html  interested in what you think!
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"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2009, 10:01:06 PM » by Linda1958
I read about the no-knead-bread. Never made it, though. I bake whole grain sourdough bread. I like it because it is artisan bread the kind I was used to eat in Germany. It's easy to make and now I am teaching women the art of sourdough bread making. It's a lot of fun, especially the last part of the class, when everyone holdes the bread in their hands and smiles from ear to ear   Grin  I had some trouble with my digestive system and after taking probiotics and then changing my diet to fermented foods, I started baking sourdough bread.
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2009, 10:09:04 PM » by Linda1958
yes, you can still make bread. Usually I bake 3 different kind of breads. I use the kitchen aid to knead and let it rise in a different bowl. I only use freshly ground whole white wheat and bake with sourdough, water, yeast, cane sugar and salt only. No oil , No dough enhancer and all the other unnecessary stuff, which only cost more and change the flavor of the bread. I grew up on sourdough bread / the European kind and love it.
If you go to my website you'll see  wheatandsourdough.com
 Smiley
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2009, 10:36:39 PM » by Linda1958
Quote from: 4myhoonie on November 08, 2009, 07:23:25 PM
well, i am not giving up, too stubborn for that.  i have had beautiful loaves on several occasions in the last 5 years, and some even fairly consistently, but eventually something always happens. 

Linda, i have checked out your site a bit.  maybe i will again.  where did you get your starter from and how much do you feed it?  i think my problems got worse with mine over time. i started out with starter from carlsfriends and it worked great for a while.  i was trying to make a 4 loaf batch every week and it just required so much feeding that i would run out of wheat too fast, and got somewhat stingy with feeding it.  also, i didn't like how thick the starter was when i fed it what the guy said on http://www.sourdoughhome.com/100percentwholewheat.html  interested in what you think!

I made my own sourdough, years ago. The principal of feeding sourdough is: replace what you took out. So, if you used 2 Tbs. , add 2 Tbs. of flour , stir it and add water slowly until you reach the consitency of peanutbutter. I wonder why you said it required so much feeding? I feed mine after I baked bread. Since  I have several jars in my fridge with sourdough, I feed them once a week or every other week. I never had a problem, it's still alive  Grin
I wrote a book on baking with sourdough / whole wheat of course. The preview is on my website. My friends who get their wheat from wheat montana also, asked me for my bread recipes. I gave them the recipe and then they didn't really know how to bake the bread. That's when I started teaching bread baking classes.
Please explain to me how you feed your sourdoughwheatandsourdough.com.  Roll Eyes
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  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2009, 09:06:12 PM » by 4myhoonie
well, where i got my info from was here:

http://www.sourdoughhome.com/100percentwholewheat.html

i used his recipe and quadrupled it to make 4 loaves in a batch.

so because i was making such big batches it required 3 cups of starter each time i baked 4 loaves.  i often would bake 2 or 3 batches in a day, to get a few Saturdays off from bread baking, so that was 6-9 cups of starter in that day.  so i would take it out on Wed. and feed it til Saturday.  he recommends to double the feeding each time you feed it.  he says every 12 hours. i also toyed with just a cup of water and a cup of ww flour each time i fed it, that was from above rubies article where she says just once a day, so i did that for a bit.  is that enough info?  it just went through a lot of flour to do it that way. 
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"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
  Re: Whole Wheat Bread Problems
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2009, 10:02:11 PM » by Linda1958
Quote from: 4myhoonie on November 11, 2009, 09:06:12 PM
well, where i got my info from was here:

http://www.sourdoughhome.com/100percentwholewheat.html

i used his recipe and quadrupled it to make 4 loaves in a batch.

so because i was making such big batches it required 3 cups of starter each time i baked 4 loaves.  i often would bake 2 or 3 batches in a day, to get a few Saturdays off from bread baking, so that was 6-9 cups of starter in that day.  so i would take it out on Wed. and feed it til Saturday.  he recommends to double the feeding each time you feed it.  he says every 12 hours. i also toyed with just a cup of water and a cup of ww flour each time i fed it, that was from above rubies article where she says just once a day, so i did that for a bit.  is that enough info?  it just went through a lot of flour to do it that way. 

Wow, that's a lot of feeding. I wouldn't do it either. I bake sourdough breads, but use only 2 Tbs. per loaf. If I want the bread to taste a little more soure, I just let it ferment longer.
If you want to see my breads, go to my website and click on "Bread"  wheatandsourdough.com
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