Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #90 on: April 12, 2007, 09:53:40 AM » by Kati*did

Quote from: cherri on April 12, 2007, 09:32:11 AM

Hey everyone, my husband was able to run some wine that was confiscated through the breath analyzer and it tested out at .1, if you remember the kombucha that brewed 14 days was .03. I have tried to read the other posts about all the pre-vinegar acidic and alcoholic content going down. Alot of it was more confusing to me than helpful. Huh

, I guess it went over my head. Anyways, I just thought I would throw this information out there. Then everyone can mull it over themselves. I am not sure if this is a help or just more confusion, still too much gray area for me and my family. Undecided

Cherri

How about drinking a glass of kombucha and getting a breath test (using a breathalyzer)? Would that tell (very generally) what we're trying to figure out? Or is that too inaccurate?

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #91 on: April 12, 2007, 10:32:44 AM » by shesaidthis

I bought my scoby from Laurel Farms. The FDA thoroughly tested Laurel Farms Kombucha over a period of several years. They tested for contamination, safety, pH, chemical content, and alcohol content (among other things, I am sure). According to Laurel Farms, Kombucha is non-alcoholic. Here are a couple quotes from the paperwork that came with my scoby:

"Fermented Kombucha Tea contains an average of one half percent of alcohol and has a pH acidity level of approximately 2.5, similar to that of Coca-Cola."

"The fermented tea has an approximate alcohol content of 0.5%; similar to or less than non-alcoholic beers and ciders."

I hope that helps some of you. I don't know if there is a difference between strains of scoby, but if you want more information, the website for Laurel Farms is www.laurelfarms.com I will warn you, however, not to email them. They don't respond. You can call or fax with questions and get a much better response. HTH

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #92 on: April 13, 2007, 06:09:03 AM » by Beth

my question is, (this has been asked before and I have yet to find an answer) How do we know our scoby has not been contaminated and is now a "yeast patty" Huh

The reason we should really want to find this out is... Wouldn.t sugar,yeast and tea equal alcohol??? Maybe this is why some people seem to feel a "buzz" from their kombucha. If the scoby has become contaminated then maybe it isn't producing the same results as a true kombucha scoby?!

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #93 on: April 13, 2007, 10:08:08 AM » by shesaidthis

Quote from: Beth on April 13, 2007, 06:09:03 AM

my question is, (this has been asked before and I have yet to find an answer) How do we know our scoby has not been contaminated and is now a "yeast patty" Huh

I would like to know this, too. Anybody got any wisdom on this?

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #94 on: April 13, 2007, 11:54:10 AM » by healthyinOhio

Quote from: Beth on April 13, 2007, 06:09:03 AM

my question is, (this has been asked before and I have yet to find an answer) How do we know our scoby has not been contaminated and is now a "yeast patty" Huh

My question would be "who says that the original kombucha scoby isn't suppose to be a type of alcohol?
I mean, any type of fermentation is gonna produce alcohol, right? If you use sugar, yeast, and fruit, you get wine. If you ferment water and honey, you get honey wine. So, that would mean to me that if I am using a "yeast" patty, sugar, and tea, then I guess I am getting a "tea wine"? Does this make sense? There is a small amount of alcohol in anything fermented such as: sauerkraut, beet kvass, etc. KWIM?

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2007, 02:36:14 PM » by shesaidthis

Quote from: healthyinOhio on April 13, 2007, 11:54:10 AM

If you use sugar, yeast, and fruit, you get wine. If you ferment water and honey, you get honey wine. So, that would mean to me that if I am using a "yeast" patty, sugar, and tea, then I guess I am getting a "tea wine"? Does this make sense? There is a small amount of alcohol in anything fermented such as: sauerkraut, beet kvass, etc. KWIM?

Okay, I know there is some alcohol even in ripe fruit -- no problem. But tell me now if I am actually making wine Shocked

My husband is a pastor. I can just see the headlines now: "Local Pastors Wife Secretly Runs Brewery -- Feeding Alcohol To Minors in Home" Yikes!! Shocked

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2007, 03:50:27 PM » by shesaidthis

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2007, 05:37:58 PM » by Beth

Quote from: healthyinOhio on April 13, 2007, 11:54:10 AM

Quote from: Beth on April 13, 2007, 06:09:03 AM

my question is, (this has been asked before and I have yet to find an answer) How do we know our scoby has not been contaminated and is now a "yeast patty" Huh

ok , yes you are right that fermented foods do contain small amounts of alcohol. But my question is still how do we know when our scobys have been contaminated and been turned into yeast patties?? They normally, in their original state, are not yeast patties. According to Laurels Farms this can happen. so...if this happens are we then simply making "tea wine" Huh

The scoby is a culture that produces specific health benefits but I dont think you would receive the same with wine. So... How do you know if your scoby has been turned into a yeast patty or not ?!

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #98 on: April 14, 2007, 06:58:29 AM » by Beth

Has anyone ever ordered from Laurel Farms? They tell on their website that you can contaminate the scoby and it is always after that contaminated as well as the babies. But they dont tell how you would know this. I thought maybe they would give more information if you had ordered one from them. Has SaraK gotten her books yet? I'm really interested in this. I personally think it would be important to know. Am I drinking true kombucha or am I drinking fermented tea???

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"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." - Debi Pearl in Created to be his help meet ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5 KJV

Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #99 on: April 14, 2007, 08:16:55 AM » by shesaidthis

Quote from: Beth on April 14, 2007, 06:58:29 AM

Has anyone ever ordered from Laurel Farms?

I got my scoby from Laurel Farms. They do give a lot of info, but they don't tell how you would know you had a yeast patty. They just say, basically, do what we tell you and NEVER do anything differently. I have already broken their rules Wink

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #100 on: April 15, 2007, 09:28:09 PM » by Kati*did

For anyone who's interested: I made my first batch of kombucha and tasted it -- about 1/4 cup -- and my blood sugar really went up...really. It was really good tasting, very fizzy and not very "sweet" tasting, but then I compared the taste to the GT's plain kombucha I got from the store with only 2 grams of sugar and the difference was very apparent. I had been enjoying the taste of the GT stuff previously, but compared to mine it tasted like vinegar. So I would suggest that if you want a very general "sugar test" you do a taste test between the plain GT and your own. It' pretty telling! Shocked

For health reasons, I obviously need a real way of checking the sugar level. I was wondering if any of you have used a refractometer and if it would work with kombucha (or if the same problems for the hydrometer -- having other stuff in there that's changing the measurement -- would effect the measurement of refraction when checking for sugar)?

Also, on another thought -- I read this little paragraph while doing some research. (This quote comes from an interesting, brief article about the concerns of mold in kombucha, in case you want to read it -- basically saying it's not quite the monster it's made to be, although it's not good). Unfortunately, it didn't have an explanation, but I thought it was interesting in regard to a lot of the reactions people in WTM talk about and have experienced with kombucha:
http://onibasu.com/blog/

Quote

Finally, going back to the originally posed question, kombucha just doesn't agree with some people, as Heidi notes:

People tend to react to kombucha either positively or not. On another list, several people got candida-like reactions after imbibing it. Others felt wonderful. I got some almost-migraine like symptoms once after a big glass. A fair number of people get a "niacin flush" after drinking it. There have been issues about it not getting along with certain medications (which is also true of grapefruit, BTW!).

« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 09:31:02 PM by Kati*did »
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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #101 on: April 15, 2007, 10:04:11 PM » by bizymum

Quote

I got some almost-migraine like symptoms once after a big glass.

That's interesting. My husband had a migraine headache improve substantially after drinking Kombucha. He had been throwing up and everything. After the Kombucha, his head still hurt some, but he didn't throw up again.

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #102 on: April 15, 2007, 10:07:29 PM » by healthyinOhio

Quote from: Kati*did on April 15, 2007, 09:28:09 PM

For anyone who's interested: I made my first batch of kombucha and tasted it -- about 1/4 cup -- and my blood sugar really went up...really.

This is very interesting, Katie. Now, with your diabetes, excuse my ignorance, the high blood sugar was a really bad thing, right? How much sugar did you use and how long did you brew? This would conclude that the kombucha is containing more sugar than we are thinking, no?

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #103 on: April 16, 2007, 07:33:14 AM » by Kati*did

Quote from: healthyinOhio on April 15, 2007, 10:07:29 PM

Quote from: Kati*did on April 15, 2007, 09:28:09 PM

For anyone who's interested: I made my first batch of kombucha and tasted it -- about 1/4 cup -- and my blood sugar really went up...really.

Yeah...it's a bad thing, but it doesn't take a lot of sugar to raise a diabetic's blood sugar. My guess is that there's more sugar in most of your teas than you might suspect...but not tons (maybe around 14 grams, like some of the "sweet" store bought, flavored kombuchas). I would really compare the plain GT Kombucha taste with your own if you want an idea of a low sugar taste. The plain GT is only 2 grams of sugar.

I used the regular amount of sugar per tea -- 1 cup/gallon -- and I left it to brew for 19 days. Then I left it in a cupboard, bottled, for a couple weeks. I had the scoby for a while before using it, and so I don't think it was working at full throttle. I'm making another batch, now and I think it's working better. This one I brewed for 11 days and I'm leaving it in the fridge for 3 weeks (with the scoby) per Bek's instructions for a dry ginger tea. I really love the taste of kombucha and I really want to make use of it, so I'm determined to get this down! Grin

I'll let you know what I find works.

@Bizymum -- That's what Heidi was saying in the quote. For some people, it can give a headache, etc. For some people, it will take it away and make them feel great. People seem to either respond well or react to kombucha.

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2007, 07:41:51 AM » by SarahK

To test the potential alcohol content by volume of a future batch of wine, you measure the specific gravity of the juice. Lower SpGr = Lower Potential Alcohol content). If the SpGr is low, you can add sugar to increase it. Then, after you culture & brew your wine, you measure the SpGr again to note the change. This change indicates the Actual Alcohol content by volume.

So, here's what I did:

4-1-07
Batch One:
SpGr= 1.034
Potential alcohol by volume: <4%

Batch Two:
SpGr= 1.032
Potential alcohol by volume: <4.5%

4-15-07
Batch One:
SpGr= 1.031
Beginning SpGr - Final SpGr = 0.003

Batch Two:
SpGr= 1.029
Beginning SpGr - Final SpGr = 0.003

Using this method, the alcohol content of my Kombucha is between 0.25 and 0.5% by volume.

The GT's Organic Raw Kombucha (Original) label reads: "Please Note: Due to the fermentation, this product may contain a trace amount of alcohol (less than 0.5%)." So my findings match that.

But, as I ramble in my previous posts in this topic, I don't know everything about this process. I do know I'm using the tools correctly & making the appropriate adjustments for temp, etc.

This test indicates that the SpGr is not decreasing very much. Though I haven't tested it, my theory is that the sugar in my brew is not altered very much by the scoby. I don't know how to verify that yet, but I'm open to ideas... or other testers. I am certain there are acids formed in the brew process. And CO2 is produced. And there are live cultures in there. But I can't measure or name any of those things at this time (except for Mark, Lucille, and Constance).

Sarah K

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #105 on: April 18, 2007, 07:55:02 AM » by SarahK

Quote from: Beth on April 14, 2007, 06:58:29 AM

But they dont tell how you would know this. I thought maybe they would give more information if you had ordered one from them. Has SaraK gotten her books yet?

I haven't gotten my books yet (Amazon super saver shipping = slower ship times). One is from the "Laurel Farm's Lady" and the other is from someone from Europe.

Quote from: Beth on April 14, 2007, 06:58:29 AM

I'm really interested in this. I personally think it would be important to know. Am I drinking true kombucha or am I drinking fermented tea???

Well, I think technically, both are true. Kombucha _is_ fermented tea. Is it alcoholic? Not according to the FDA.

Sarah K

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #106 on: May 05, 2007, 01:23:45 PM » by savedbygrace

I know this has probably been asked a hundred times but...
Has anyone had success using honey in place of the sugar? I can tell there is sugar left in the brew because my yeast problem flares up after I drink it. It is the only thing I use white sugar for so I know it is the Kombucha. What exactly are the properties in the sugar that the "mushroom" needs to thrive?

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #107 on: May 05, 2007, 03:41:40 PM » by savedbygrace

bump

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #108 on: May 08, 2007, 08:44:29 AM » by Beth

Quote from: savedbygrace on May 05, 2007, 01:23:45 PM

Yes, inquiring minds want to know. Also can you make sugarless kombucha? That's probably a really dumb question, but blood sugar problems force me to ask anyway.

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #109 on: May 08, 2007, 08:49:07 AM » by flowerchild

I have hypoglycemic tendencies and I do ok with it. I believe the Kombucha eats up the sugar to produce all the good stuff.

So without sugar it wouldn't work. I've also heard that honey should not be used. The best sweetener for it is plain ol' white sugar.

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #110 on: May 08, 2007, 10:44:56 AM » by SarahK

Quote from: Beth on May 08, 2007, 08:44:29 AM

Quote from: savedbygrace on May 05, 2007, 01:23:45 PM

Yes, inquiring minds want to know. Also can you make sugarless kombucha? That's probably a really dumb question, but blood sugar problems force me to ask anyway.

Quote from: savedbygrace on May 05, 2007, 01:23:45 PM

I just got my first Kombucha book - Kombucha Phenomenon: The Miracle Health Tea by Betsy Pryor & Sanford Holst. Betsy is the "Laurel Farms" owner/operator and has been on a variety of TV programs. Her book seems to cover all the topics but is pretty weak (in my not so humble opinion) on sited research, tests and such. (all that techinical blah-blah-blah stuff I hold so dear) I am waiting on another book by Gunther Frank for a different perspective.

That said, the Laurel farms book recommends refined white sugar but doesn not give reasons why that is requried or how it was used in cases like this: "In 414AD, the Japanese Emperor Inkyo was reported to be suffering from severe ddigestive troubles, and summoned a physician from Korea. This doctor Kombu is believed to have brought the divine tea to Japan." and "In later years, Japanese warriors considered the properties of this divine tea so special that they carried it into battle in their field flasks." (page 116 & 117)

I personally think there is sugar in the finished kombucha. I am currently testing some made with Sugar in the Raw & organic herbal tea.

All to say, I sure use a lot of words to tell you that -in my opinion- the jury is still out on all this.

Sarah K

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #111 on: May 08, 2007, 11:04:05 AM » by 4myhoonie

Quote from: Kati*did on April 16, 2007, 07:33:14 AM

I used the regular amount of sugar per tea -- 1 cup/gallon -- and I left it to brew for 19 days. Then I left it in a cupboard, bottled, for a couple weeks. I had the scoby for a while before using it, and so I don't think it was working at full throttle. I'm making another batch, now and I think it's working better. This one I brewed for 11 days and I'm leaving it in the fridge for 3 weeks (with the scoby) per Bek's instructions for a dry ginger tea. I really love the taste of kombucha and I really want to make use of it, so I'm determined to get this down! Grin

I'll let you know what I find works.

i didn't know about Beka's dry ginger brew, and last ginger batch, (2 gal. 2 c. sugar) i just didn't get to it, and it brewed for 21 days. my hubby loved it even more and said it was pretty sugarless. clean and crisp. so if you try this we would love to know how you think it is, sugar wise. he doesn't like to eat much sugar and it inhibits his weightloss progress. i am brewing it for 21 days now, cuz he liked it so much, i wonder if it's bad to be out on the counter that long? Undecided

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #112 on: May 08, 2007, 11:14:58 AM » by Kati*did

Quote from: 4myhoonie on May 08, 2007, 11:04:05 AM

Quote from: Kati*did on April 16, 2007, 07:33:14 AM

I'll let you know what I find works.

I have decided to leave it out longer, too, to make sure I got all the sugar out. I like the dry wine taste, anyway. I think I'll try around the 21 days like you mentioned. So far mine has been out for 13 days, and I can still taste sugar. I also called GT's Kombucha to see if they had heard of a refractometer working to test the sugar levels. The lady there was really awesome and we talked for a while about how they do theirs (of course, everything is lab tested), but she thought a refractometer would work and asked me to call her back and tell her about it if I tried it out. Now I'm saving some money to get that...and I hope it works!!

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #113 on: May 08, 2007, 11:47:48 AM » by Beth

That said, the Laurel farms book recommends refined white sugar but doesn not give reasons why that is requried or how it was used in cases like this: "In 414AD, the Japanese Emperor Inkyo was reported to be suffering from severe ddigestive troubles, and summoned a physician from Korea. This doctor Kombu is believed to have brought the divine tea to Japan." and "In later years, Japanese warriors considered the properties of this divine tea so special that they carried it into battle in their field flasks." (page 116 & 117)

I personally think there is sugar in the finished kombucha. I am currently testing some made with Sugar in the Raw & organic herbal tea.

All to say, I sure use a lot of words to tell you that -in my opinion- the jury is still out on all this.

Sarah K
[/quote]Well... Now that does make you wonder. I am not a historian but... I am pretty sure they did not have refined white sugar in the year 414AD! So who's got any ideas of what they might have used?

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #114 on: May 08, 2007, 12:00:23 PM » by healthyinOhio

Quote from: Beth on May 08, 2007, 11:47:48 AM

Well... Now that does make you wonder. I am not a historian but... I am pretty sure they did not have refined white sugar in the year 414AD! So who's got any ideas of what they might have used?

I know, that is the same question I came up with on this thread months, ago. If this is such an "ancient" drink, then the sweetener they would have used was pure cane.
Perhaps, over time, the research showed that white sugar would produce the most glucoronic acid in the tea. I would be happy with that, but have yet to see the "proof". Can't believe people like NT's Fallon have no research on something like that, yet tons of research on everything else?
So, I have always used organic EC juice. It is finely ground, but is still yellow. So, I guess I am somewhere in the middle of being safe on both ends of the argument! Wink

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #115 on: May 08, 2007, 09:27:50 PM » by shesaidthis

Quote from: healthyinOhio on May 08, 2007, 12:00:23 PM

Quote from: Beth on May 08, 2007, 11:47:48 AM

Well... Now that does make you wonder. I am not a historian but... I am pretty sure they did not have refined white sugar in the year 414AD! So who's got any ideas of what they might have used?

Perhaps, over time, the research showed that white sugar would produce the most glucoronic acid in the tea.

The literature I received from Laurel Farms said that research showed the refined white sugar "fed" the scoby best. They did not site the research or give any other evidence. Sorry not to be more help... Embarrassed

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #116 on: May 08, 2007, 09:55:03 PM » by savedbygrace

Quote from: healthyinOhio on May 08, 2007, 12:00:23 PM

I know, that is the same question I came up with on this thread months, ago. If this is such an "ancient" drink, then the sweetener they would have used was pure cane.

So, I have always used organic EC juice. It is finely ground, but is still yellow. So, I guess I am somewhere in the middle of being safe on both ends of the argument! Wink

Ok, I am guessing you meant SC juice? It is juice but it is ground? I can get sugar cane syrup. Is this the same as sugar cane juice? Has anyone tried honey??

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2007, 10:33:42 AM » by Whiterock

Quote from: savedbygrace on May 08, 2007, 09:55:03 PM

Ok, I am guessing you meant SC juice? It is juice but it is ground? I can get sugar cane syrup. Is this the same as sugar cane juice? Has anyone tried honey??

EC juice = Evaporated Cane juice

It's a granule or powder

WR

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #118 on: May 09, 2007, 10:58:35 AM » by healthyinOhio

Quote from: savedbygrace on May 08, 2007, 09:55:03 PM

Ok, I am guessing you meant SC juice?

Why would I want to squeeze poor dear SC? Cheesy

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Re: Kombucha: Alcohol, pH, Caffeine, Sugar & Culture Content
« Reply #119 on: May 09, 2007, 12:00:21 PM » by flowerchild

Here's a tip from the Kombucha Yahoo group that I belong to. This may help with those of you who have problems with caffeine. "A home decaffeinate water-process: Immerse the tea in one cup of boiling
water. Wait 30 seconds and remove the tea. Discard that water. Now use
the tea in your regular water. 80% of caffeine is naturally extracted in
hot water within the first 30 seconds. It is debated the role or benefit
that caffeine plays in our lives as well as that in the life of the
kombucha. Most kombucha brewers believe that some caffeine is necessary
for kombucha brewing. True, depending upon the balance of the ferment as
well as the time fermenting some - of the caffeine is reduced."

There is a LOT of great information on this yahoo group. I highly recommend joining it if you're interested in Kombucha or have questions about any part of the process. There's an especially good article on there right now about the benefits of the various types of teas.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/original_kombucha/

The guy who wrote the above comment also says this on his site:
"Higher anti-oxidants may be expected with white tea, while cholesterol lowering affects achieved with pu-erh tea. For caffeine sensitivity, herbal teas like Rooibos produce a tasteful energetic - yet caffeine free kombucha tea. A more cooling soothing relaxing KT is created by Dragon Pearls."
www.happyherbalist.com

« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 12:05:02 PM by flowerchild »
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