Author Topic: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures  (Read 88352 times)

Offline Gabe Rising

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Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« on: April 18, 2006, 07:53:01 AM »
This morning I went in for a checkup for Hannah, our youngest. I really don't like going to see the doctor as generally medical personnel are so focused on maintaining their own certifications, avoiding legal liability, properly executing reporting procedures, and keeping the peace with their own employer.

I am not saying that these things are inherantly wrong... I deal with them all myself to a lesser degree, however, on top of these distractions there is this psycho-social imprint on most Americans that attributes a definite patriarchal authority to doctors in specific, and to the medical community in general.

So you have on the one hand a powerful managed pressure placed on doctors by Insurrance companies (We're out to getcha!), Drug companies (We can pad your paycheck), the AMA (use our rules or you'll be an X-MD), the CDC (Get the paperwork right), the employer, co-workers, continuing education, education loans...

But on the other hand you have this "god complex" that most people willingly give to doctors and to the medical community.

So on the one hand, my physician really cannot give quality care, but on the other hand he thinks that he is my only hope for a long healthy life... and he is amazed when I do not feel the same way. My pediatrician does not know me or my child. He does not know how I live, how I raise my kids, what I believe. He just has a checklist, and a set of procedures that he must complete before he hands me a bill for $100 and sends me and my child out the door. The really odd thing is that he is comfortable with this.

Today, I spent 50% of the visit talking about vaccines. The funny thing is that my pediatrician told me that he respected my beliefs. I replied that I respected his as well, but that I wish that he would respect my education. He sort of halted, and then continued to explain that every person must follow his conscience and that he just presents the facts so that each person can make an informed decision.

I thought that was pretty fair, and I pressed my point saying that I respected him for being honest and up front. I also said that like any education his was limited. It only included those things that his teachers knew or desired to teach. Then I mentioned that my disagreement was not with him but with the AMA that designed his education. That they have to deal daily with powerful special interests, and that they have chosen to design a program that is based on the best fit for society in general instead of for the individual.

I am not sure what he thought about that, he really didn't have much to say. I concluded by thanking him again for his work, his professionalism, and his dedication. I said that I would like a list of the vaccinations he would recommend, and thatI would consider them as I would be back to visit him with my other two children in two days.

He appeared genial at this, got me the vaccination informaitonal papers, and his RN finished up with an Anemia / Lead lab test.

So I am doing my homework today.

The pediatrician recommended these vaccinations:

Diphtheria Tetanus & Pertussis
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Haemophilus Influenzae Type b (Hib)
Polio
Pneumococcal Conjugate
Chicken Pox
MMR

See all CDC Vaccine Information Statements here

I did some searches and found these interesting links in wikipedia:

List fo Vaccine Topics
anti-vaccinationists (written by a "true believer")
Controversies in Autism
Vaccine Controversy
MMR Vaccine

After readnig all that... and a couple others, I went to this site:

Think Twice

...and bought a couple of their books, and a DVD. We'll see how it goes.

I will report my findings and my interaction with my pediatrician.

--gabe

Offline wadenboots

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2006, 12:29:15 PM »
I just have a little input to share about Doctors.  I have never gone to a Pediatrician, but go to a family practitioner who has been my family Dr. since I was 4 years old.  I love him!  He is a wonderful Dr. and person.  I have friends who do use pediatritians and I've heard them talk about them a little.  It seems to me that you might get along better if you stayed away from a pediatritian if you are not wanting to vaccinate your children.  My family Dr. is so open to natrual healing and to my beliefs and feelings.  I will admit I'M not big on only natural healing and my husband isn't either.  But his family is and they tend to give us stuff they think we need to take.  I can take it to my family Dr. and he will tell me what he has learned aobut it and what it can do for you or not do for you. 
Anyway, what I really wanted to share is that there ARE good Drs. out there, you have to 'shop around' to find one.  Also, look for one who is a D.O. instead of an MD.  They are usually more open minded.  If you do your homework you can find a Dr. who will learn to know you and listen to you and respect you for who and what you are.

Offline homeschooltheheart

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2006, 12:40:28 PM »
Thanks so much, Gabe & Rebekah,

I can't tell you how much my family appreciates the two of you.  This site has been an awesome blessing to us.  Our family's position concerning this topic is almost exactly as yours.  I'll keep checking for your findings!

Melissa
« Last Edit: May 23, 2006, 10:53:48 AM by homeschooltheheart »

Offline candcwelch

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2006, 01:48:44 AM »
Wow - I really appreciate our doctors now! They are Christians and pray with us in the office. Our pediatrician came down to the hospital after Valerie had surgery and prayed and talked with me for an hour (this was at 11pm one night).

Celeste

Offline Maria/NHM

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2006, 03:10:51 AM »
I recently found this site on vaccines  http://www.vaccinetruth.org/index.htm.  I haven't checked out the entire site but I did find the link Doctors against Vaccines very interesting. It might be a good place get some info. I'm looking forward to hearing about your research!
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Offline Helen

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2006, 03:37:53 AM »
 I Have only my one son who was born a month early, the hospital told me to take him to a pediatrician (theirs) the third day of his life, I did so stupidly just obeying, I was shocked at the pediatricians attitude, he immediately started insisting we start him on his shots NOW! I said no not today, i told him we are not sure about some of the shots yet, he proceeded to tell us exactly how stupid we were, he had 5 children and he pressed that point over and over, he checked my son, and walked away from the table leaving him laying their naked and by the edge, i grabbed my son and dressed him , we stayed polite all the way Thur but he just went on and on how stupid we and it was, finally we left , a while later i got the hospital to fax his medical records so we could fly with him , and here the pediatrician had left a bad feedback and incompetent parants in his medical records, I was very upset about it, and hope it never comes back to haunt us. 
  The medical business as a whole isant really about helping people anymore, it seems to be more what pays good, not really what fixes the problem, maybe i am too harsh but thats how it seems,

Offline moufasa denbafo

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2006, 04:08:09 PM »
In response to Petrimama's post on sharing health concerns with spouse.

My thoughts immediately run to what my wife and I term, “Togetherness”.  We put a high premium on unity and sharing all things. I totally understand the desire to share a part of your life with your spouse. It is definitely something we fought for in our marriage, and continue to do. There are a myriad of things that play into the issue. Everything from different ways of communicating, (love languages), to different perspectives, that are a result of ones upbringing, ect.
   It may be that there are other more important things to discover in the relationship than what you wish at the moment. It is terrific that you have been able to restore/renew him in this area. We are meant, I believe, to be a tangible piece of God to our spouses. It may be that this is your gift of redemption to him, and his to you may be something else. We compliment each other. It was several years for my wife and me, as we wrestled through issues of feminism and who plays what role in our home. We thought we had to have everything equal. (Wow, is there a lot that could be said on that issue or what?) But not to stray too far from the original thought. We are continuing to discover the gifts that are unique in each other. And learn to appreciate them for what they are. We realize everyday how boring life would be if we insisted on sameness; we would lose our very identity.
   There are several authors that we have found in our journey, that are helping us to a fuller, deeper, more rewarding experience of each other in marriage. They are John Eldridge, (“Wild at Heart” & “Captivating”), Sheldon VanAuken, (“A Severe Mercy” & “Under the Mercy”), Mike Mason, (“Mystery of Marriage”). [By the way, I hate devotional books, and these I found riveting.]
   A quick quote from Mike Mason, “To put it simply marriage is a relationship far more engrossing that we want it to be. It always turns out to be more than we bargained for. It is disturbingly intense, disruptively involving, and that is exactly the way it was designed to be. It is supposed to be more, almost, than we can handle. It is meant to be a life long encounter that would be much more rigorous and demanding than anything human beings could ever have chosen on their own. After all, we do not even choose to under such far reaching encounters with our closest and dearest friends. Only marriage urges us into these deep unknown waters. For that is its very purpose: to get us out beyond  our depth, out of the shallows of our egocentricity and into the dangerous and unpredictable depths of a real interpersonal encounter.
   And that, incidentally, is also what true religion is supposed to do. It is supposed to remind us that God is not an idol of our own making, not a human invention, not a concept, or a theory, or a projection of ourselves, not a tool … but in matter of fact that  God is really there, … beyond our wildest dreams … a Living Being who we can know.”
   I hope this conveys sincereity, not arrogance. It is never our intent to be overbearing in our views.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2006, 04:13:31 PM by moufasa denbafo »

Offline ForeverGirl

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2006, 07:01:39 PM »
Fantastic post! Ah, truth is sweet. Thank you - thank you, very much.

Rebekah
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Offline jaemom

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2006, 08:02:19 AM »
This morning at the Dr.'s office.......they told me they won't see my children if I do not get them vaccinated.  They don't want to be "responsible" if anything were to happen.  The Dr. (whom we have never seen until today) informed me of this quite matter-of-factly without even bothering to address my concerns with the issue.  They told me my daughter's fever of 105.3 was not a cause of her vaccinations.  They would not let me explain anything, and would not accept that she has had adverse reactions in the past.  I told my hubby that I really didn't want to see a Dr. that didn't accept that we make the medical decisions for our children.  Hubby agreed.   :)  I expected bullying, but have you ever heard of a Dr. refusing to see a child unless they are vaccinated?  I just told him, "Thank you, we will find another Dr. who will at least address our concerns and accept some input from us."   :-\  Oh well.....
Wife to J (10 yrs)
Mom to B (9), G (7), G (2), and B (1)

Offline Maria/NHM

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2006, 09:16:23 AM »
This morning at the Dr.'s office.......they told me they won't see my children if I do not get them vaccinated.  They don't want to be "responsible" if anything were to happen.  T

My mom was told the same thing by a Dr. several years ago. They didn't want to be responsable if her nonvaccinated kids got the vaccinated kids sick ??? Strange huh.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 11:36:09 AM by Ella »
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Offline hopenaomi

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2006, 09:50:15 AM »
Wow! All of your experiences bring back memories of my own "battles".  When I had my first child I ALWAYS did the "well-child" check thing. I thought the Dr. had the best for my son in mind, so when he had a virus (cold) on the day of his well-child visit ( he was 17mo.) I went believing that they would know best. I was concerned about giving him his MMR when he had a cold, but the Dr. insisted he would be fine.Two days later he was admitted to the hospital with a viral pneumonia. He wasn't getting enough oxygen. He had never been so sick, and has never been since then. It was then I started researching vaccinations and it was then that I realized that only MY HUSBAND AND I have the best in mind for our children. Since then I've had a Pediatrician admit that it is plausible that the vaccine could have promoted the virus.
Something to think about: The Hep. B is mainly given to children since they are less likely to come in for it as young adults/teens. HepB is contracted through body fluids and dirty needles. Health care workers are at risk for HepB, as well as people who have promiscuous relations and drug users. Why then are we vaccinating little children from HepB when it is contracted through these "lifestyle" choices?   Again, my Dr. said that it was better to give it to the children when they are young and the parent more likely to bring them in for their shots. They assume that most teens will have sexual relations and/or experiment with drugs. The boosters are given because they do not know exactly how long the vaccine will protect the child from HepB.
I was just really surprised to see the HepB on the list of reccomended shots given to Gabe. Our (new) Pediatrician agrees with me that it is one that is not needed unless the child is playing with dirty drug needles,etc. Seriously, this was the reasoning given to me from a "health care professional".

Offline Hope64

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2006, 10:38:23 AM »
Our pediatrician told me that the reason they are now givng HepB shots to infants is that SO many adults have the virus that they are infecting infants through saliva.  And that if an infant under 1 year gets HepB that they often have permanent damage.  That was the story.  We declined the vaccination.  We are not non-vaccing.  We accept some and reject others based on our research.  In our state HepB is required for public school children  - as is the chicken pox vaccine. 

Hope64

Offline Mama Sita

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2006, 10:59:54 AM »
**Sigh**
This is such a hotly debated topic, and rightly so. Years ago, when my kids were small, we didn't think anything of vaccinating them. No adverse reactions, thank God, although some fever and fussing for a couple of days. (We never gave them the chicken pox vaccine, although it was pushed pretty hard.)

Now, with all the info on vaccines and their links to autism, we may have done it differently. I guess my real problem with vaccines is the sheer volume of them given to such little ones at 2,4 and 6 months old. It is very clear that young immune systems aren't mature until later, maybe a year old or later. Why in the world can't vaccines be given later or spaced out? I have never gotten a really good answer to this.

Also, thimersol, a preservative that contains mercury, used to be contained in children's vaccines. I don't think it is still being used, but you need to check to make sure.

Here is a website that gives a little more insight to vaccines--the pro-side of things. It is by Dr. Jay Wile, author of the Apologia series science books. He is a nuclear chemist by nature and does not benefit financially from supporting vaccines:

http://www.highschoolscience.com/vaccines.htm

Whatever you do with your children, do it prayerfully. This is a very tough subject!! :-[

God Bless,
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Offline SC

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2006, 12:02:28 PM »
For medical reasons, we do not immunize any longer in our family. However, I just recently became aware of some moral grounds for not immunizing. In many immunizations, aborted fetal cells are being used. To keep us from being harassed by well-meaning social workers or medical personnel I tell them to mark our chart "declined for reasons of conscience." A friend of mine shared her documentation with her pediatrician about the fetal cells. He later quit his practice. I am sharing the links she gave me for anyone who wants to do further research. I am quoting my friend in italics.

Here is the link to Children of God for Life, the Catholic organization that is active in getting information out about fetal cells being in vaccines.  Their website is informative and also so far has lined up with all the research we have done.  You can check all facts via the CDC website too.
http://www.cogforlife.org/
Wow, I just found a statement on the CDC website, here is a link
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/humancell.htm
The cdc's main website is www.cdc.gov
If you want the actual vaccine ingredients, type it in google, for example
"MMR vaccine ingredients" or "MMR Package Insert" 
and the manufacturers list will come up with the package inserts and info from the manufacturer.

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Offline jaemom

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2006, 12:18:07 PM »
I just wanted to say that I'm not for or against vaccines.  What's right for me might not be right for someone else's situation.  I only wanted to get more information on certain vaccines before we made our decision on each vaccination individually.  I feel we were the same way--trusting that our Drs. had our kids' best interest in mind.  I definitely do not feel that way any more.  I've wavered between angry and unsure all day.  I want to make the best choice, an informed choice.  I've read so much of the cons that I feel imbalanced, and I wanted some of the pros.  I will definitely check out that website. Neither of my other two had reactions to the vaccines at all.  Each vaccination has produced a worse reaction in her.  Last time it was a very high fever that night and golf ball size welts on her legs for 3 weeks.  What bothers me the most is in the information sheets they give you for the DTaP, the ones Gabe put links to, they say the reaction is usually after the 4th or 5th shot.  Today would've been the 4th shot. I don't want to imagine what reaction she could've had if I gave it to her since she has already had what the CDC considers a moderate reaction.  (Did that make any sense?  :))  I guess I'm just confused, upset, and want to do more research before I make a decision.  And now I have to find another Dr. too, not that I liked that one anyway.  I am frustrated because there seems to be a shortage of sane Drs. in my area.   I think I might try a regular Dr. instead of a Pediatrician.  Thanks for letting me vent.   :-\  I'm just so new to all of this and very unsure of what I'm doing.  My hubby says the decision is mine since I'm doing all the research, but I just don't want to make a mistake.  Thanks for all the input.
Wife to J (10 yrs)
Mom to B (9), G (7), G (2), and B (1)

Offline petrimama

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2006, 12:38:52 PM »
This thread seems to be leaning more toward vaccines now, so maybe you guys would like the thread dedicated to that.  It's got pages of hot debate and personal stories, all of which are loaded with info.        ~L

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2006, 08:44:25 AM »
have you ever heard of a Dr. refusing to see a child unless they are vaccinated? 

Nope, but my vet refuses to see my cats without them.  *snicker*
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Offline jaemom

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2006, 02:03:43 PM »
hee hee  :P
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Offline Numero

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2006, 01:04:30 PM »
Ah, vaccinations. A very polarizing issue.
As I researched it, I found that lies abound on both sides. There are even lies about the lies.

Probably the best site for exposing anti-V lies was http://www.pathguy.com/antiimmu.htm
And a damning site to the integrity of the pro-V side was
 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/.
Statistics themselves form a major role in the lies of both sides. That can only be overcome with more research.
How about taking 2 groups of 500 children and splitting them for 5 years as follows:
Group 1. Hospital birth, Vitamin E, Eyedrops, bottle fed, all the shots while they're tots, fluoridated water, regular well baby checkups with the ensuing rounds with antibiotics, standard American diet, etc.

Group 2. Home birth, breastfed around the clock for 18+ months, no shots, organic unprocessed food, pure water, nonsmoking home, no doctor visits whatsoever (children who receive emergency medical intervention are thereupon withdrawn from the study but the cause of medical intervention is noted for statistical purposes).

At the end of 5 years, compare the two groups for the presence of the following:
1. Allergies, Asthma, and any other disorders of the immune system
2. Cancer
3. Tooth decay

Then, in the event that Group 2 scores a lower incidence of the above, continue the experiment 5 more years and check for the cumulative level of:

1. Broken bones
2. Defective vision
3. Days sick in a year (as defined by elevated temperature, vomiting, or diarrhea)
4. Number of childhood diseases caught & recovered from
5. Juvenile diatbetes

I'm quite willing to let my children participate provided only that they are in Group 2!
I suspect that this study will find that Group 2 children get sick more often but recover faster, have a fraction of the immunological problems, and will even have healthier teeth, despite never seeing a dentist. Broken bones may not differ statistically, but I'll bet Group 2 has fewer rebreaks. Vision may be a surprise, it would be interesting to see if there's a difference

The problem is that vaccination is only one of the factors in the above study, and how do you isolate it?
I don't. Keeping my children as far away as possible from doctors and their needles is only one way I show my love and care for them. And as far as I can tell, they are benefiting from it. I can't keep them from dying sometime, but I can keep them from being exposed to a witch's brew of toxic chemicals and biological by-products that could affect their ability to stay healthy for the rest of their lives, however long they may endure.  At least so far, I've been able to. And thank God, my older children who did get shots are still healthy for now. But they got far fewer shots than kids are getting today.
I noticed that the women with the heartwrenching stories of their kids who died because they didn't get a given vaccination were kids who already had been bombarded with a host of other vaccinations. No stories about healthy Group 2- type kids who never got a needle in their lives but died of an easily preventable disease.
None that I could find.

Numero (husband of Anita and father of 8 healthy kids)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 01:25:17 PM by Numero »

Offline jaemom

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2006, 05:32:52 PM »
Thanks so much for the links.  I have been trying to find statistics for awhile, and I have been overwhelmed by opinions and theories instead.  It's great to hear from a guy who's interested in keeping his family healthy the natural way.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets   ::) when discussing a natural lifestyle.  ;D  he he
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Offline Numero

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2006, 07:00:58 AM »
When I'm overwhelmed with all the competing statistics, I just use common sense:
1) Humanity survived for thousands of years without V's. Sure a lot of people died back then. People still die. Who among us doesn't know a parent who has lost a child to some disease or another, usually just after incurring a hospital bill of $100,000 or more?

2) It makes sense to treat an illness that is life-threatening--all the more so if the treatment is known for being safe and effective. Fortunately there are treatments available for all vaccinatable diseases except a rare few like rabies that aren't on the V schedule anyway.

3) It doesn't make sense to treat a perfectly healthy child with a treatment that is known to be neither safe nor effective--which all pro-V people admit is actually the case. Only they believe it to be the case in only a tiny fraction of a percent of the people vaccinated. But what if that turns out to be YOUR child? And what if it turns out that MOST people who are vaccinated turn out to suffer for it sooner or later? I know a man who got Guillen-Barre syndrome in his 60's. It's associated with vaccinations (even in the US Gov't literature) and he'd been getting them for over 40 years. It almost ended his life a decade before his time.  Although the disease is still a bit of a mystery, there is no known cause for GBS other than vaccinations. The same goes for autism.

4) I am simply amazed at how resistant my unvaccinated children are to disease. No matter how sick they get--and they HAVE gotten at least 3 of the vaccinatable diseases--they always recover within a week (2 wks for chicken pox) without any medical intervention whatsoever. They poke their feet all the time, but never get tetanus (and they walk around in & out of cow/sheep/chicken manure all day long barefoot).   I myself have had 3 of the vaccinatable diseases, & I got so many shots as a kid they had to get me a new shot record book to fit the latest entries. I'm really not just all that scared of Vaccinatable Diseases nor am I all that impressed with the necessity nor efficacy of vaccinations. I do resort to drugs and surgery at times, partly because I'm not yet enough of an expert to know how to avoid them. But I have been known to talk a couple of dr's out of surgery and both times I turned out to be right on the diagnosis. I value doctor's knowledge & ability and I respect their legal monopoly, but I don't trust them any more than I absolutely have to, which thankfully seems to be less and less often as my children keep coming.

Numero

Offline deepfriedtwinkie

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2006, 07:19:20 AM »
I have to say, Numero, I think that was very well put!  Kudos!

Offline Monita

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2006, 11:18:55 PM »
This is a new thing for me.  I just never even gave vaccinations a second thought until I began meeting people who did not vaccinate their children.  It just made me so curious as to why not.  I began asking them and they would share their personal reasons but in a very non judgmental way, I appreciated this and began my own search for information.  I found so much though and did not know who was being honest and who was just being a fear monger.  I didn't know if the CDC was being honest or my Pediatrician, I has been a lot to digest.  My baby girl had her first few sets of shots but after finding out that their may be dangers and that they may even be toxic, I held off pending more information.  My hubby was giving me the go ahead to research and allowing me the freedom to make the decision.  So, here I am and she is now past due on several set of shots including the MMR.  The THINK TWICE site was very informative and really made me lift up my eyebrows. 

My problem is that Hubby is in the military and it is a very communistic environment.  I live overseas and depend on the Military Docs and clinics.  They are so scary!  They have already called my home telling me that Abby is overdue for her shots and that I need to bring her in NOW!  I have tried to talk to the nurse of or the pediatrician but they don't even want to discuss it.  It is as though I have no choice, but I know I do.  My hubby is now feeling the pressure and I am too.  I will tell more later.....

Ok, so I know that some vaccinations are not bad and by the Grace of God my other children who had all vaccinations are fine.  I just want more time to decide.  I am such a sissy when it comes to bullies and I feel thats what is happening.  I am being bullied.  I don't yet have the information or the ability to express myself to these people.  I don't want to keep sounding so indecisive.  This is a situation where you have to get all shots or none at all! :o  I am always praying for wisdom and peace about a decision.  Should my hubby decide that she needs to get them well then I can rest in that.  God gives him such wisdom, it's so amazing.  But for now it is up to me and I'm needing the right words to articulate to these people my concerns without getting so scrambled.  Why am I being made out to be such a bad mom for this.  They take it so personally and speak to me so harshly.  Don't they see that I love my baby and don't just want to follow the herd because someone says it's good for me and her! :'(  If something happens to her will they be there to help?  Will they even feel responsible.  I'm sorry for being so dramatic and emotional. ::)  I am just venting I guess, thinking out loud. 

Thank you for listening.  God is so much bigger than I am I just need to pray pray pray and then just be still.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 01:25:11 AM by Monita »

Offline dara

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2006, 04:44:25 AM »
I am supra-responsible for my kids health because they were given to me by God...
"Write your hurts in the sand
and grave your blessings in stone."

Offline lotsagirls

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2006, 05:14:59 AM »
My first three children have had all of their shots.  I blindly listened to the Drs. advice.  I attribute this to being young and dumb...and completely uninformed.  All three of them have allergies and asthma.  Coincidence...I think not!

With my fourth (5mos old now), I have done a lot more research.  I was horrified to learn that vacs are made from aborted fetal tissue.  I was sick to my stomach after reading that!  That info alone convinced me that vacs were probably not the route to go with my infant.

I also read that most of the children that contract these diseases contract them from the vaccine.  Most of the reported cases of these "childhood diseases" were contracted from the child receiving the shot.  Again, another reason not to give them.

I also learned that most of these diseases are highly treatable and that vaccinating my child did not absolutely prevent them from getting the disease.  Consider the recent outbreaks of whooping cough.  Most of the people who got it had been vaccinated.  Which of course they contribute to not getting a booster shot because they aren't sure how long the "protection" lasts.

My fourth child was born in a hospital via emergency c-section.  I had three pediatricians come in daily and tell me how wrong I was, how my child NEEDED these shots, and that I was a horrible parent for not giving them to her.

Right before we were to be discharged the hospital's head pediatrician came in to talk to me.  This man was 6' 7" and at least 280.  I am 5'2" and not nearly that heavy.  He was in my face (literally) about giving my child these shots before we left.  They also wanted to poke her foot and do some metabolic testing (unnecessary in my opinion...and in the opinion of my midwife).  He told me that I would be sorry that I didn't let him give her shots and run these tests and that I shouldn't play god with my child's life. 

I kindly told him that God gave this child to me, not him.  And that I would make decisions about this child's health and wellbeing, not him.

He stormed out of the room saying that he was going to pray that my child did not get one of the horrible diseases and that he was going to poke her foot anyway because "she looked a little jaundice to him".  (Of course, she looked jaundice due to the vit K shot that she received without my permission).  I couldn't believe it.  I called my husband and said that he needed to come get us immediately.  I wasn't going to stay there one more minute.

I found it funny that when the nurse came to give me my discharge notes, she said that this doctor said that I didn't have to bring my baby back for a checkup because he didn't ever want to see me again.  Believe me, the feeling was mutual!
Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.  Psalm 127:3

Offline ARmom

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2006, 09:43:27 AM »
I have certainly enjoyed reading this page.  We made the decision to discontinue V's 10 years and 4 kids ago, and have not regretted it.  We've had to explain ourselves a few times to various health care professionals,some who respected our position and some who didn't. Thankfully my husband is very articulate and not afraid to be different.  Considering that we have 4 k's we have made few trips to the DR. and only one to the ER(which was not necessary either but I didn't  know) We've had great peace knowing that the Lord loves us and loves our children even more than we do.  You guys keep this going.  I'm interested to know more about what you find out.
                        God Bless You
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Offline IMPersuadd

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2006, 10:14:13 AM »
I learned a bit new yesterday when I took my 2 year old to the naturopath for his well baby/annual visit.  I had asked for the tetanus only for him and my naturopath did quite a bit of research and talking to folks and this is what he found.  Let me say that two years ago when my four year old got his tetanus shot I was told that they do NOT make a tetanus only and had to give him the dT (without the pertussis).  Just FYI, Tetanus is the only shot I am interested in for my boys unless God calls us to a foreign field where something else would be necessary.
 
Anyways, Aventis Pasteur makes a tetanus only that is also almost thimerasol free.  It has less than 3 micrograms per dosage and the normal shot has 25 micrograms per dosage.  The only reason they list any thimerasol according the answers the ND received is that they process it in a metal vat that previously contained a "normal" batch and even though they clean the vat twice, they cannot gaurantee it is completely free so they list it as "less than 3 micrograms" more for protocol sake than anything.  The insert says it is only for persons older than 7 years of age, so he asked about that - can it be given to younger children, etc.  It is the EXACT same dosage and completely "safe" for younger children but due to political groups (amer acad of ped, and the vacc folks) they are NOT allowed to market it.  The AAP and ACIP WANT parents to do the complete DTaP series and therefore do not allow the manufacturers to market or advertise that there is an alternative.  And this only requires one shot, rather than the series that it typically given to babies.

According to the insert it is grown in bovine tissue (not human or egg).  It does have some aluminum (less than 25 milligrams) and less than .02% of formaldehyde.  I know those things are not ideal, but for us, finding one that is tetanus only and basically thimerasol free were huge improvements. 

I am not advocating this particular vaccination, but thought that it would be good for parents/folks to know that there IS an alternative out there.  I am sure a ND or MD would have to special order it, etc. but my ND found it and I am thankful.  It meets the need that we have determined for our children.  And we always wait until they are at least two years old so that their systems are better able to handle the "invasion".

Hope this is helpful info.
Lori
I aM PERSUADeD

Romans 8:38-39
II Timothy 1:12

Offline abbilynn

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2006, 05:05:53 AM »
We really battled with the vaccine issue too.  Our Christian pediatrician who loves our kids and prays with them definently believes kids should be vaccinated.  But our Christian chiropractor who believes in natural health is highly against it.  We vaccinated our older two before we really knew much about it and they both have problems.  The oldes had major speech delays and oral sensory issues.  The middle one has severe sensory integration dysfunction.  We didn't vaccinate the youngest until he was a little older and he still isn't up to date on them b/c we are so torn wether they are good or bad.  But he doesn't have any problems so far.  I've heard that certain vaccines can effect a certain genetic code in similair ways.  Which would explain why two of my children have issues.  I can't help but  wonder if it was the vaccines.
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Offline jamieandsamuelsmom

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2006, 10:10:00 AM »
I've been reading this thread with interest.  I would appreciate any input on this sensory integration dysfunction.

An introduction.  My name is Jen, and I'm a pediatric nurse and mom of 2 boys.  I thought vaccines were safe and effective, that is what I was taught in nursing school.  Now I'm doubtful of this, especially since there is a lot of autoimmune disease in my family.  My 4 year old has sensory integration dysfunction.  I let him go to our district's special ed. preschool, but the are only giving him occupational therapy for fine motor delays.  I am in the process of having an OT evaluation by a private OT that takes our insurance.  I have read "The out of sync child" and I think OT would be a good way of dealing with this.  I'm thinking of pulling him from the preschool at some point.  It isn't helping much.  I planned to homeschool anyway.  I hope that treatment for sensory integration is the answer, because I feel like a failure in parenting this child.  He has no clue how to play with other kids without being too rough.  And he is a nightmare to sit in church with, I left in tears yesterday.  I read TTUAC when he was around 9 months, and try to train him this way but I feel we aren't getting through to him sometimes.  Jamie is fully vaccinated except for the 4 year shots I declined.

My younger child has a history of allergic colitis (on breastmilk only) and developmental delay.  He is doing much better now, walked at 17 months.  He is now 22 months and he can say about 3-5 words that I understand.  We got tubes put in his ears 2 months ago.  I stopped vaccinating him after his 6 month shots.  This child is easier to discipline, though.

I would love some imput.  Some days I just feel like giving up.

Jen

We really battled with the vaccine issue too.  Our Christian pediatrician who loves our kids and prays with them definently believes kids should be vaccinated.  But our Christian chiropractor who believes in natural health is highly against it.  We vaccinated our older two before we really knew much about it and they both have problems.  The oldes had major speech delays and oral sensory issues.  The middle one has severe sensory integration dysfunction.  We didn't vaccinate the youngest until he was a little older and he still isn't up to date on them b/c we are so torn wether they are good or bad.  But he doesn't have any problems so far.  I've heard that certain vaccines can effect a certain genetic code in similair ways.  Which would explain why two of my children have issues.  I can't help but  wonder if it was the vaccines.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 03:32:34 AM by jamieandsamuelsmom »

Offline murfette

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Re: Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2006, 02:49:32 PM »
Another thing to think about when it comes to vaccinations is food allergies.  We vaccinated our 4 year old until he was 6 months old because we were not aware of the other side of the story.  We chose not to vaccinate our 2 year old at all after a friend warned us about the potential problems which led us to do our own research and make that decision.  We thank God every day for that decision because I feel our 2 year old is alive today because we did NOT vaccinate him. 

You see, we discovered when he was 9 months old that he had a severe egg allergy.  Even just rubbing a little bit of an egg on his face causes him to break out in that area.  I learned that some childhood vaccines have eggs in them.  Now some doctors say it is still safe to get a vaccine even with an egg allergy and nothing will happen.  But I also talked to my natural health doctor who said that if we had vaccinated him as a newborn with that allergy he could have gotten extremely sick or worse.  Considering the severity of his allergy I'm positive something would have happened.  If we had vaccinated him we never would have attributed it to an egg allergy because he had yet to try eggs and there are no food allergies in our families.

Something to think about.