Inflammation & Diet

[YoopreMama]

Thank you for sharing your story and pictures, HB.     I'm so sorry for what you've been going through.    Having gone through skin stuff these past 6 months, I sure feel for you.   

This is all very interesting.  It seems like it strikes healthy people out of nowhere... I had the welting at times, and hives lately.  I wonder what causes weakening of the mast cells?

Would coconut oil be one of those Omega 6 fats?  I've been craving green olives like mad...avocados...taking flax oil...hmmm...time to learn the difference, I think. [I'm skimming the immune system link: http://www.drkaslow.com/html/immune_restoration.html
now and see stuff on olives and coconut oil!  EVOO helps w/ skin, too, interesting.  Must read in greater detail later.]

I look forward to hearing what you learn, and watching you navigate your way out of this (with the Lord's help).  Praying for you...

[likemanywaters]

Also, if Omega 6's are "essential" fatty acids, I wonder how long you can avoid them?

YooperMama,

Olive Oil is high in Omega 9's. On that link you looked at it says Coconut Oil was neutral as far as their research? Anyway, I don't think it has much O6's, but I could be wrong...

Hey, that's interesting what it says about silica helping. I've got a whole bag of Horsetail, but would have never thought about using it externally on skin problems. Hmm....

[YoopreMama]

YooperMama,
Olive Oil is high in Omega 9's. On that link you looked at it says Coconut Oil was neutral as far as their research? Anyway, I don't think it has much O6's, but I could be wrong...

Hey, that's interesting what it says about silica helping. I've got a whole bag of Horsetail, but would have never thought about using it externally on skin problems. Hmm....

Thanks, likemanywaters, for that note on the olive oil--I have horsetail all over the place....would love a good use for it...(other than for hair). 

HB-The locations of your welts/hives are similar to mine....curious.

[likemanywaters]

I've been craving green olives like mad

Maybe, not so strange.  I've been craving them too, out of the blue.

Would you say it's the oils in them you are wanting?  Sometimes I wonder if it is the zing of the Lactic Acid in them when I can't stop popping them. I recall reading about lactic acid in the body recently (as a byproduct of some process, i think). I want to say it was supposed to be hard on the body? ... will research a bit more & get back to ya...

Also, I did read the 5. Heal the Gut post you mentioned, the only source (of those listed) of Omega 6's DS is getting is Eggs. Besides the EPO. Decided to change it to all CLO instead of one of each. I had heard of tuna being high in mercury, but i think salmon (wild caught alaskan) and sardines were supposedly not as likely to be contaminated...

[healthyinOhio]

Coconut oil is highest in Omega 3's, followed by Omega 9's, then 6's.

[healthybratt]

Looks like you will be making a lot of Indian and Thai food! 

Hardly.   

[keywords="Inflammation Nation", "Win the War Within", "Dr. Floyd Chilton"]

[ForeverGirl]

I've been suspecting for a while already that the face rash that I dealt with last year began with an inflammation problem, which stemmed from the trauma my liver went through early last year.
I noticed that drinking tart cherry juice helped a lot, as did blueberry and pomegranate juices.

The link HB gave in her post with photos, is a really good one. For those that don't want to read through the whole thing, I'll summarize with a list I jotted down for myself:

To Eat:
Sardines
Cod
Codliver oil
Wild Salmon
Cold Pressed Olive Oil
Olives
Silica
Soil Based Organisms

Not to Eat:
Store-bought Yogurt
Alcohol
French Fries or chips or anything fried in:
Vegetable or Corn oils
Safflower, Sunflower, Soy oils
White Sugar

The book "Winning the War Within" has a list of foods that add to the inflammation problem. I saw a list in my Mom's copy that included all organ meats and dark Turkey meat, and farmed Salmon. I believe it also included eggs, which doesn't make sense to me, because eggs are Omega 3s. ?  I'll be getting the book on Monday  .

Rebekah

[healthyinOhio]

I've been suspecting for a while already that the face rash that I dealt with last year began with an inflammation problem, which stemmed from the trauma my liver went through early last year.

Rebekah,

This is very interesting.  Did your face rash look a lot like rosacea?  I have flare ups every once in awhile, but cleansing and coffee enemas work to take it away.  I am wondering if my sporadic rosacea is just inflammatory problems. 

[ForeverGirl]

Yes, it looked like Rosacea, and perioral dermatitus. And yes, the Liver Flush and coffee enemas cleared mine up too, temporarily. It still comes back occasionally. Things that I've noticed that help are:

Salt water sprayed on my face.
Detox baths
Liver Flush
Taking Silymarin daily
Spirulina and/or chlorella
Soil Based Organisms Tummy Tune-up
Tart Cherry, Pomegranate, Blueberry juice
NEVER TOUCHING IT - EVER, EVER, EVER!

I'm looking forward to learning what foods caused inflammation response...

Rebekah

[Maria/NHM]

Not to Eat:
Store-bought Yogurt
Alcohol
French Fries or chips or anything fried in:
Vegetable or Corn oils
Safflower, Sunflower, Soy oils
White Sugar



Rebekah

[/quote]

Would that be all store bought yogurt? I only buy Brown Cow which is pastorized but NOT ultra pasterazed or homogenized. I'm just wondering what it is about yogurt that should be avoided. I can't get enough raw goats milk to make my own so I started buying the Brown Cow brand.

[ForeverGirl]

Not to Eat:
Store-bought Yogurt
Alcohol
French Fries or chips or anything fried in:
Vegetable or Corn oils
Safflower, Sunflower, Soy oils
White Sugar



Rebekah

Would that be all store bought yogurt? I only buy Brown Cow which is pastorized but NOT ultra pasterazed or homogenized. I'm just wondering what it is about yogurt that should be avoided. I can't get enough raw goats milk to make my own so I started buying the Brown Cow brand.

Maria

Here's the info on store bought yogurt, and the website it comes from. I guess I'm not totally convinced that plain yogurt would increase Th2 response, but it certainly seems possible from the quote below. There are a lot of other things mentioned as well in the article that I may have missed on my list - you should read the article!
       

Other factors that stimulate a Th2 response include a strain of bacteria, Streptococcus thermophilus, which is widely used in the making of commercial yogurt.  Marin ML et al from Michigan State University found that streptococcus thermophilus significantly increased IL-6 production in macrophage lines. They also found that lactobacillus bulgaris and B. bifidum also increased IL-6, although less than S. thermophilus. (J Food Prot 1998 Jul;61(7):859-64). Most commercial yogurt have to add acidophilus and many also have S. thermophilus, which is not shown on the label.  Perhaps eating yogurt may not be a good idea after all even though research shows that acidophilus inhibits tumor growth in laboratory animals (Nutr Cancer 1997;28(2):130-4).  If the yogurt contains more thermophilus than acidophilus, Th2 cytokine response may dominate over the beneficial Th1 cytokines.  http://www.drkaslow.com/html/immune_restoration.html

[skelliott2]

I've been suspecting for a while already that the face rash that I dealt with last year began with an inflammation problem, which stemmed from the trauma my liver went through early last year.

Just curious, what type of liver trauma did you have?

[healthybratt]

Got my book - haven't read it yet.     Working on it though.  Just thought I'd mention, yesterday, still craving olives (ate a bunch) AND pinapple (I know this one anti-inflammatory).  Ate so much pinapple ALMOST got sores in my mouth.  Also craving chicken, but haven't labeled that one yet.

Interesting, since I've been on the road to health, how my cravings have changed.  I think my body had to learn what to crave and when because of all the junk I used to eat, my crave machine was always confused.   

[healthyinOhio]

I'm looking forward to learning what foods caused inflammation response...

I would like to know the list, too.  I am almost willing to bet that tomatoes are on it.  Just because I love them soooo much!    Wouldn't be surprised to see the nightshade veggies(tomatoes, eggplants, and peppers).  I have heard they caused inflammation on certain arthritic and inflammatory conditions.
So Beka or HB can type out all the stuff for us lazy people. 

[Lauralee]

I am on an anti-infammatory diet (when I follow it strictly) Here's the diet.

Avoid:
Tomatoes
corn
fried foods
cured foods
pork products
wheat flour
all types of sugar (1 tsp honey per day OK)
white potatoes
dairy
citrus fruits
Organic eggs
free range chicken (too expensive so don't do it)
grass fed beef (same as above)


I think that's all. That's enough! Hard diet to live on although I try daily.

[YoopreMama]

I am on an anti-infammatory diet (when I follow it strictly) Here's the diet.

Avoid:
Tomatoes
corn
fried foods
cured foods
pork products
wheat flour
all types of sugar (1 tsp honey per day OK)
white potatoes
dairy
citrus fruits
Organic eggs
free range chicken (too expensive so don't do it)
grass fed beef (same as above)

I think that's all. That's enough! Hard diet to live on although I try daily.

THANK YOU! 

[healthyinOhio]

I am on an anti-infammatory diet (when I follow it strictly) Here's the diet.

Avoid:
Tomatoes

grass fed beef (same as above)

I KNEW IT!! TOMATOES!!!!  Also, we just bought a 1/4 of a cow and there is NO way I am not eating that expensive creature!!  Bummer.  Okay, maybe I don't want anyone to list anything else. 

[Whiterock]

Organic eggs
free range chicken (too expensive so don't do it)
grass fed beef (same as above)

I don't get it. What's wrong with these foods? Why are "organic", "free range" and "grass fed" singled out? Are the conventional versions of these foods ok?
WR

[healthybratt]

I am on an anti-infammatory diet (when I follow it strictly) Here's the diet.

Avoid:
Tomatoes
corn
fried foods
cured foods
pork products
wheat flour
all types of sugar (1 tsp honey per day OK)
white potatoes
dairy
citrus fruits
Organic eggs
free range chicken (too expensive so don't do it)
grass fed beef (same as above)


I think that's all. That's enough! Hard diet to live on although I try daily.

and what does this diet do for you?

[YoopreMama]

In considering how to battle inflammation, I think of how herbs would fit in...

I'm looking at Practical Herbalism's description of anti-inflammatories (herbs).  It lists many herbs [arnice (external), calendula, chamomile, chickweed, comfrey, garlic, hyssop, licorice root, peppermint, sage, witch hazel, to name a few] and then states,

"Inflammation is very often a defense or repair function & as such, should be aided, not suppressed until the cause is removed.  Acute conditions may arise form abrasion, irritation, minor wounds or injuries, insect bites & stings, bruises, welts, shingles, chemical irritation or burns, etc.  Once the cause has been addressed, the inflammatory response may be mitigated by the use of anti-inflammatories.

So...how does that fit into the picture here, (HB)?  

[healthybratt]

In considering how to battle inflammation, I think of how herbs would fit in...

I'm looking at Practical Herbalism's description of anti-inflammatories(herbs).  It lists many herbs [arnice (external), calendula, chamomile, chickweed, comfrey, garlic, hyssop, licorice root, peppermint, sage, witc hhazel, to name a few] and then states,

"Inflammation is very often a defense or repair function &as such, should be aided, not suppressed until the cause is removed.  Acute conditions may arise form abrasion, irritation, minor wounds or injuries, insect bites & stings, bruises, welts, shingles, chemical irritation or burns, etc. Once the cause has been addressed, the inflammatory response may be mitigated by the use of anti-inflammatories.

So...how does that fit into the picture here, (HB)?   

This is only in regards to an injury.  If the injury is healed (or should have been long healed), then you're diving into inflammation problems.  You don't really want to suppress inflammation, but you also don't want it out of control.

[likemanywaters]

Well, we already avoid all processed foods & most of the ones mentioned on this list. If I cut out the pork, eggs, chicken, & beef I'd have nothing left to feed DS. What DO you eat??? Fish? Also, where did you get this list?

I am on an anti-infammatory diet (when I follow it strictly) Here's the diet.

Avoid:
Tomatoes
corn
fried foods
cured foods
pork products
wheat flour
all types of sugar (1 tsp honey per day OK)
white potatoes
dairy
citrus fruits
Organic eggs
free range chicken (too expensive so don't do it)
grass fed beef (same as above)


I think that's all. That's enough! Hard diet to live on although I try daily.

[likemanywaters]

Just found this:

Carbohydrates, starches and fiber are not an essential nutrient in the human diet. They are very harmful. The healthy brain of the fetus is made from cholesterol, omega-3 fatty acids, saturated fat, amino acids from proteins, vitamins, minerals and other essential nutrients...

Omega-6 fatty acids as found in soybean, safflower, corn and other grain, nut and seed oils are pro-inflammatory. It is essential only in very small quantities and ratio as found in meat, not vegetarian foods. All oils from grains, nuts and seeds should be strictly avoided if you want a baby that doesn't have autism. Salad dressings are the most common source for unhealthy omega-6 fatty acids. This make green leaf vegetable salads and dressings a sickly combination that will harm your baby...

The three most nutritionally important omega-3 fatty acids are alpha-linolenic fatty acid (ALA), eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic fatty acid (DHA). Alpha-linolenic fatty acid is one of two fatty acids traditionally classified as "essential." The other fatty acid traditionally viewed as essential is an omega-6 fat called linoleic acid. These fatty acids have traditionally been classified as “essential” because the body is unable to manufacture them on its own and because they play a fundamental role in several physiological functions. As a result, we must be sure our diet contains sufficient amounts of both alpha-linolenic acid and linoleic acid...

Omega-3 fish oils are essential and highly desirable. However, one must restrict the intake of omega-6 fatty acids in vegetable oils because they are inflammatory and have been implicated as a possible cause of heart disease. Avoid all vegetable oils such as soybean oil, corn oil, nut oils and seed oils. Olive oil is high in omega-9 fatty acids which are neutral. Take Carlson's lemon flavored cod liver oil for the omega-3 EPA and DHA fatty acids and the vitamin D. Supplement with omega-6 gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) by taking borage oil. The body does not produce essential fatty acids - they can only be ingested through food. GLA and omega-3 fatty acids together produce prostaglandins, called E1 series. This type of prostaglandin helps reduce inflammation and aids in digestion. Do not take any other omega-6 oils such as flaxseed or primrose oil. Avoid all other vegetable omega-6 oils. Solid scientific research shows omega-6 fatty acids are highly inflammatory and should never be eaten by anyone with a bowel disease, heart disease, arthritis or any other autoimmune disease. Everyone should seriously limit these omega-6 fatty acids.

On http://www.biblelife.org/pregnant.htm (down further on the page).

[Lauralee]

As far as my diet here's what I can eat:
fruits (except citrus)
veggies
basmati or brown rice
rice pasta, crackers (Trader Joes has good ones) and breads (although I will have whole wheat bread)
eggs from the farm down the street
dries fruits with a protein(such as nuts)
beans
sweet potaotes
organic butter
wild fish (look for the leather jacket and mohawk)

I also forgot to add - avoid: coffee  , all oils except olive and only cook with coconut, soy products (mostly because they are cross contaminated), shellfish, farmed fish.

I had cancer and inflammation can lead to cancer among many other things. Do a search on anti-inflammatory diets and you'll learn a lot more.

I feel good on this diet, even though I don't follow it 100%...sometimes not even 50%. It is a hard diet to stay on. Especially when your family doesn't want to take part. My dh likes his coffee every morning and I LOVE coffee. When I go to someones house I generally eat what they serve but do the best I can to avoid really bad stuff. I bring salads to cookouts (I have a great cabbage salad recipe). Dessert can be hard to resist but when I am in the mood I make al natural toll house cookies. They are really good (or so I think).

[kimberlee]

Hi Lauralee,

Do you mind posting the Tollhouse cookie recipe on the cookie recipe thread? That sounds interesting. Thanks.

Kim

[mercy]

Just stumbled across this thread and am intrigued.  I have had skin problems on the palms of my hands that are clearly inflammatory in nature.  It is much better right now, but what is worse is the inflammation in my muscles.  The muscles in my left hip are so inflamed right now I am having trouble walking.  All my adult life, my body's response to everything seemed to be inflammation in many forms.  Skin rashes, pleurisy (inflammation of the lining of the lung), canker sores, muscle inflammation.  I already knew I was very sensitive to sugar, and all the nightshade foods.  I am flat out allergic to milk in any form.  Eating a little sugar in some baked beans is what I think brought this hip problem on, along with the mold in our motel room this past weekend.  But I have been taking EPO to help with it because the bottle on the Beeyoutiful EPO states that it is "...a strong influence on the normalization of our immune system inflammation response."  Am I actually making it worse??

And what is wrong with pasture-raised beef and free range chickens? And why are the other store-bought varieties okay? This is the only kind we eat, and I am supposed to go pick up a side of beef this week.  Like HIO, there is no way we are not going to eat it!

And one more question about something that confuses me:  When we have a candida issue, we crave sugar--clearly something we are not supposed to have.  Autistic children (according to Unraveling the Mystery of Autism) tend to crave the very foods that are helping produce their symptoms.  How do we know that when we crave olives, or sardines, or chicken, that it is because our bodies really need it, and not because our bodies want to maintain the status quo?

[likemanywaters]

Good question about the EPO. I've read the bottle too & wondered the same thing as well!

Not sure why those items (pasture-raised beef, chicken, eggs) are listed. Lauralee? I do know that I've read the fat profile of eggs & meat is different if it is grass-fed pasture-raised. I had heard that with eggs for instance the Omega 3's and 6's are closer to equal instead of more Omega 6's like normal eggs. So from that, it sounds like free-range eggs would be good. Now, if you buy "free-range eggs" from the store & not from a local farmer, I know those chickens are fed an abundance of SOY and other grains (read the package carefully). Not sure what extra SOY would do to the meat/eggs. That for me is one of the many reasons it's best to buy locally from someone you KNOW.

Last night I finally put 2 and 2 together about my own hip problem as well. Since a teenager my left hip has gone through periods of hurting. Always fine in the mornings & gets progressively sore & difficult to walk as the day goes on. Nothing constant, I'd go through long periods of no problems, then for a few days it would happen again. I think it is definitely inflammation now. After marriage, it dissapeared completely as my diet changed to match my DH's instead of the food I grew up with. Now I'm going to specifically watch my O6's to see if that is it... But I won't INTENTIONALLY test it! 

As far a cravings, I think our CRAVE mechanism can be either messed up (what we don't need or what is addictive) or working correctly (what we do need). I noticed when I cut carbs out of my son's diet he started craving more fish. Before he craved & I fed him  carbs & SWEEEET fruits (raisins, figs, dates) all the time.

[ForeverGirl]

My face rash has been lurking again this week, and my 4 month old baby has the same rash on his face, which comes and goes. For both of us, the rash comes up if the skin is irritated by scratching, rubbing, hair blowing in face, etc... Salt water heals it up, but it returns if we skip a day. So yesterday I took a LOT of Cod liver oil. Things I noticed: My face doesn't itch today. Last night all my joints ached like I had a flu (is it related?).

 I've been reading here and there, and some of my thoughts thus far are:

1: Most inflammation diets are "quick fix" diets. They cut out foods that attract an inflammation response. However the body needs these foods for many reasons, and the quick fix is not a treatment of the source of the problem.

2: The real underlying cause seems related the the Omega fats balance in the body. The body uses fats to deal with toxins caused by stress, disease, injury, etc... The Th1 cytokines are aided by Omega 3's. (Correct me please if I've got this wrong!) and the Th2 cytokines are aided by  Omega 6's. We need both of these cytokines working in balance to properly deal with toxins.

3: A Th1/Th2 Cytokine imbalance may occur secondary to: Liver stress, excessive medications that tax the liver and either kill, or circumvent Th1 cytokines, inadequate diet of healthy fats, disease (like cancer (or maybe disease is secondary to inflammation...)), and lastly (just guessing now) maybe an inability to properly process the fats I eat. (This, I can't find info on yet, but will keep looking... anybody?)

4: What to do in the meantime? Do not stop eating all Omega 6's. Instead, up the Omega 3 intake substantially. Get plenty of sunshine and exercise, as this seems to help everything work better, even on the cellular level. Take bee pollen because it helps the liver deal with unhealthy fats. Take Silymarin because it helps the liver produce enough bile. Drink a lot of water to flush all excess toxins. 



Food with Omega 3's:
Cod liver Oil
Wild Salmon
Sardines
Halibut
Mackerel
Cod
Flax Seeds
Dried Ground Cloves
Cauliflower
Cabbage
Dried Ground Oregano
Mustard Seeds
Brussel Sprouts
Pumpkin Seeds
Walnut(s) oil  (both 3 and 6)

Food's with Omega 6's: [edit: especially raw, unheated oils (below 120 degrees)]
Safflower oil - the richest natural source
Sunflower oil
Corn oil
Sesame oil
Hemp oil (best balance of omega 6:3)
Pumpkin oil
Soybean oil
Walnut oil
Wheatgerm oil
Evening Primrose oil

[healthybratt]

And one more question about something that confuses me:  When we have a candida issue, we crave sugar--clearly something we are not supposed to have.  Autistic children (according to Unraveling the Mystery of Autism) tend to crave the very foods that are helping produce their symptoms.  How do we know that when we crave olives, or sardines, or chicken, that it is because our bodies really need it, and not because our bodies want to maintain the status quo?

Just a guess, but if it's a bad craving it's a learned response, meaning, you remember it made you feel good yesterday, so you want some more.  In a situation where you crave something you need, it's based on memory as well, but a much deeper memory (I think), like when you crave pickles when you're pregnant.  I don't know if this makes any sense and I don't know how to explain it any better than this, but I believe cravings are designed to help us, but just like anything else, they can be damaged and trained wrong.  If you've never eaten butter, then your body will crave margarine to sustain it's need for omega fats, but if you train your body to understand that butter is what you need for this craving, it will change.  You will no longer crave margarine, but you will crave butter and margarine will begin to taste like the toxic sludge that it is. 

[YoopreMama]

My face rash has been lurking again this week, and my 4 month old baby has the same rash on his face, which comes and goes. For both of us, the rash comes up if the skin is irritated by scratching, rubbing, hair blowing in face, etc... Salt water heals it up, but it returns if we skip a day. So yesterday I took a LOT of Cod liver oil. Things I noticed: My face doesn't itch today. Last night all my joints ached like I had a flu (is it related?).

 I've been reading here and there, and some of my thoughts thus far are:

1: Most inflammation diets are "quick fix" diets. They cut out foods that attract an inflammation response. However the body needs these foods for many reasons, and the quick fix is not a treatment of the source of the problem.

2: The real underlying cause seems related the the Omega fats balance in the body. The body uses fats to deal with toxins caused by stress, disease, injury, etc...
 
3: A Th1/Th2 Cytokine imbalance may occur secondary to: Liver stress, excessive medications that tax the liver and either kill, or circumvent Th1 cytokines, inadequate diet of healthy fats, disease (like cancer (or maybe disease is secondary to inflammation...)), and lastly (just guessing now) maybe an inability to properly process the fats I eat. (This, I can't find info on yet, but will keep looking... anybody?)

4: What to do in the meantime? Do not stop eating all Omega 6's. Instead, up the Omega 3 intake substantially. Get plenty of sunshine and exercise, as this seems to help everything work better, even on the cellular level. Take bee pollen because it helps the liver deal with unhealthy fats. Take Silymarin because it helps the liver produce enough bile. Drink a lot of water to flush all excess toxins. 

Thanks, FG--I'm glad to hear your thoughts on thing...upping the Omega 3s while not discontinuing the Omega 6s sounds prudent.

When you say A LOT of CLO--may I ask how much that was? I have double strength 650 mg CLO softgels from NOW.  Each gel contains:

2500 IU of Vit. A &
270 IU of Vit. D...

It lists typical values of Omega 3s as being EPA 45mg, and DHA 60 mg. I know, you're not a Dr...just putting it up so I can compare when you respond.   

Have you tried (diluted) ACV on the skin?  I'm using an herbal vinegar w/ lavender & chickweed w/ some success.  I used a poison ivy soap, too (Burt's) when things were really sweaty/itchy.

Is the achiness due to a change in milk supply by chance?