Author Topic: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk  (Read 30067 times)

Offline dara

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« on: June 02, 2006, 03:22:46 AM »
I was just logging on this morning to ask if anyone knew how to make cultured buttermilk! Thank you!

I am still wondering if I can make it without any cow milk starter in goat milk. My kids are allergic to cow milk, raw or not. Do any of you other goat milk users know? I'd really appreciate your sharing.
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Offline petrimama

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2006, 08:49:05 AM »
I think this question belongs here....
I have recently begun making whole wheat buttermilk pancakes instead of my regular whole wheat ones.  They taste fine, but I have trouble getting them really fluffy.  My orig. recipe called for flour, eggs, honey, water/milk, salt and baking powder.  All I did was substitute the buttermilk for the water/milk part, but I was wondering if I should have changed the baking powder to baking soda?  Is there anything else I should have done?  Thanks.                                                         ~L

Offline healthybratt

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2006, 06:47:24 PM »
I think this question belongs here....
I have recently begun making whole wheat buttermilk pancakes instead of my regular whole wheat ones.  They taste fine, but I have trouble getting them really fluffy.  My orig. recipe called for flour, eggs, honey, water/milk, salt and baking powder.  All I did was substitute the buttermilk for the water/milk part, but I was wondering if I should have changed the baking powder to baking soda?  Is there anything else I should have done?  Thanks.                                                         ~L

I'd like to know this too.

Also, check this thread for some interesting info on buttermilk pancakes.
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Offline PurplePen

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2006, 12:50:17 PM »
What is buttermilk??  I've done some research, but I'm still confused.  I guess there's two different kinds, but how do you know which one to use for pancakes?? 

Offline petrimama

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 03:44:32 PM »
I think I'm confused too.  The buttermilk I was referring to is the leftover from my butter making.  It sure doesn't seem fermented to me.  Could that be the problem?  And how do I ferment it?  (Please don't tell me that I just have to let it sit out and get yucky :P)  By the way, my husband tried the pancakes today and said they were the best ever - so what do I know?????    ::)               ~L

Offline healthybratt

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2006, 06:59:30 PM »
I think I'm confused too.  The buttermilk I was referring to is the leftover from my butter making.  It sure doesn't seem fermented to me.  Could that be the problem?  And how do I ferment it?  (Please don't tell me that I just have to let it sit out and get yucky :P)  By the way, my husband tried the pancakes today and said they were the best ever - so what do I know?????    ::)               ~L
Quote
Something about buttermilk brings to mind good old-fashioned home cooking. Biscuits (May 14 is National Buttermilk Biscuit Day) are probably number one on everyone's list, but buttermilk has many different applications in the kitchen - not only in recipes but it is also important to the science of cooking. Many folks labor under the misconception that buttermilk is basically a buttery, high-fat milk. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

What's in buttermilk?
You might be surprised to learn there is no butter, per se, in buttermilk, and it is lower in fat than sweet milk. Old-fashioned homemade buttermilk is the slightly sour, residual liquid which remains after butter is churned, ie. milk from the butter or buttermilk. It was usually flecked with tiny spots of sweet, creamy butter that didn't quite make it to the top to be skimmed. The flavor of buttermilk is reminiscent of yogurt and most people prefer it well-chilled. You'll find it is slightly thicker in texture than regular milk but not as heavy as cream. It takes one gallon of milk to yield one-half pint of true buttermilk.

Nowadays, most commercial buttermilk is made by adding a lactic acid bacteria culture to pasteurized sweet whole milk or, more commonly skim milk or non-fat milk, and it may or may not have added butter flecks. After the addition of the culture, the milk is left to ferment for 12 to 14 hours at a low temperature (optimum 69 degrees F.). It is usually labeled cultured buttermilk and may be salted or unsalted. Most commercial varieties are salted, so check the label if you are on a sodium-restricted diet.

Buttermilk history
In days gone by, nothing went to waste in the standard homestead, and this included the liquid leftover after churning butter. Combined with natural airborne bacteria, this liquid thickened and soured, taking on a pleasingly tangy flavor. The resulting buttermilk made an excellent addition to biscuits, pancakes, and baked goods.

Buttermilk Lore
Irish folklore claims a glass of buttermilk will cure a hangover, and when heated with a clove of garlic, it was sure to cure any variety of ailments. According to American folklore, drinking buttermilk will immunize one against poison oak and ivy. May pioneer women used buttermilk as a facial wash, believing the flecks of butter brought a smooth and creamy complexion...from

CLICK HERE to find out How to Make Cultured Buttermilk

or for a quickie you can make it easily by using 1 cup of skim milk and a tablespoon of any acid. Using white or apple cider vinegar or lemon juice will work and these add more tartness. Using a tablespoon of cream of tartar will work as well and this will not be quite as acidic.

 

 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 06:14:37 AM by healthybratt »
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Offline jaemom

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2006, 05:20:14 AM »
I clicked the link, but it came up "page cannot be displayed".  :(
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Offline healthybratt

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2006, 06:15:17 AM »
I clicked the link, but it came up "page cannot be displayed".  :(

Typo - sorry.  Try again or CLICK HERE.
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Offline petrimama

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Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2006, 06:26:24 AM »
Hmmm....I guess that explains the reason my "old fashioned buttermilk" pancakes weren't any fluffier or really much different at all than than when I use water.  My buttermilk was made from fresh cream, not old and I didn't use a culture to ferment it.  I guess I'm still learning as I go!  At least my kids will have a head start on me though, since I seem to make all the silly mistakes that can be made and they are learning right along with me! ;D  Thanks for all the helpful info, HB.                  ~L

Offline dara

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2006, 02:11:51 AM »
Anybody make this with goat milk before? Mine hasn't thickened yet. Snotty yogurt, runny buttermilk... of course I want to blame the milk, but I don't know. Let me know if you've tried it. We have 3 family birthdays coming up this week, and the best choc cake recipe on earth calls for buttermilk (the thick stuff), but Nika can't have it if I can't do it in goat milk.
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Offline Beth

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2006, 09:32:48 AM »
 This may be a silly question. But does anyone know if the culture in buttermilk works the same as yogurt or kefir? My husband love to drink buttermilk with salt and pepper. (It is pretty good) And I would love to hear he is actually doing something healthy!!
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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2006, 09:53:59 AM »
I leave my fresh raw cream out on the counter for about 7 hours, to culture.  Then I make the butter (whirl it in my food processor till it becomes creamy and then shake it like crazy in a mason jar till it clumps) and the leftover liquid I believe is cultured buttermilk, since it's from cultured butter.  I just wish I got enought milk every week to make lots of butter and buttermilk, but can't afford that!  I'm going to use your suggestion, HB, for the cheaters buttermilk in recipes!   ;D       

Offline Julia

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2006, 04:57:07 AM »
Do we have any buttermilk experts here? I made some buttermilk using the link that HealthyBratt gave above and it smells right but it's super slimy! UGH! What did I do wrong? I just set it on top of the heater - where the temperature varies from probably 65-80 degrees. That's the warmest spot in the house. I'm thinking maybe I can still use it in recipes so it's not that big of a deal but I'm not sure if I should buy more store buttermilk for starter or just use the slime.

There was an old question about how to make buttermilk pancakes fluffy - if you want to change out milk for buttermilk in a recipe, just decrease the baking powder and add a little baking soda. For instance, my pancake recipe decreases the baking powder from 3 tsp to 1 tsp, and adds about 1/2 tsp of baking soda.

Offline dara

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2006, 05:35:09 AM »
Quote
Reply #9 on: August 16, 2006, 07:11:51 AM »  by  dara
Anybody make this with goat milk before? Mine hasn't thickened yet. Snotty yogurt, runny buttermilk... of course I want to blame the milk, but I don't know. Let me know if you've tried it. We have 3 family birthdays coming up this week, and the best choc cake recipe on earth calls for buttermilk (the thick stuff), but Nika can't have it if I can't do it in goat milk.

BTW, it thickend up great for that occassion. Just don't tell the rest of the extended fam they ate cake with GM buttermilk! lol
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Offline boysmama

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2006, 09:08:29 AM »
Do we have any buttermilk experts here? I made some buttermilk using the link that HealthyBratt gave above and it smells right but it's super slimy! UGH! What did I do wrong? I just set it on top of the heater - where the temperature varies from probably 65-80 degrees. That's the warmest spot in the house. I'm thinking maybe I can still use it in recipes so it's not that big of a deal but I'm not sure if I should buy more store buttermilk for starter or just use the sli.....
I would pitch the slime and start fresh. I've found using bought buttermilk as starter is risky, sometimes it has the starting power and other times it is contaminated. The sliminess in my understanding is the result of some bad bacteria in there from either the starter,milk, or container/mixing process.
I'd also guess that the temp was a little warm. I find that much over 70 degrees is too warm. I much prefer a longer culturing time at a cooler temp. This gives it a smoother consistency.

If you want a basically foolproof starter, check outwww.cheesemaking.com Look for buttermilk under the direct set cultures. It is $5.95 for 5 packs of starter plus shipping. I have kept them two years in the freezer with no problems and counting... Although that company does not recommend reculturing I have successfully done it(approx. 1/4 cup per quart of fresh whole milk). I have to start a new culture every 6-9 months because of contamination/weakening culture. I make buttermilk every 2-3 weeks. I do home-pastuerize (145' F for 30 min.)the milk I use to ensure that my culture stays pure. This particular starter will make very thick buttermilk. If it is turning out too thick for your preferences, reduce the culturing time. Keep in mind that it will thicken after you put it in the fridge and that shaking it up will break up the curd a little and make it pourable.
The first batch you make will take longer to culture than subsequent batches.
I love buttermilk!!!

Offline Julia

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2006, 09:20:48 AM »
Wow, thanks for the great answer! The website just said to put it in a warm spot, and that he puts it next to his wood stove, so I thought my spot wasn't warm enough. I guess I'll start over, then!


Offline boysmama

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2006, 09:23:06 AM »
Quote
Reply #9 on: August 16, 2006, 07:11:51 AM »  by  dara
Anybody make this with goat milk before? Mine hasn't thickened yet. Snotty yogurt, runny buttermilk... of course I want to blame the milk, but I don't know. Let me know if you've tried it. We have 3 family birthdays coming up this week, and the best choc cake recipe on earth calls for buttermilk (the thick stuff), but Nika can't have it if I can't do it in goat milk.

BTW, it thickend up great for that occassion. Just don't tell the rest of the extended fam they ate cake with GM buttermilk! lol
Do you know what made the difference? I have trouble with goat's milk in buttermilk and yogurt too. Sometimes acceptable and other times absolutely gross... never as thick as cow's milk... can't quite figure it out. :P

Offline cbrownell

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2007, 03:14:28 PM »
BTW, I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants that cake recipe!!!!!!

Offline Danswifey

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2007, 04:41:18 AM »
Oh yes, Dara, I'd like to that recipe too!!   ;D 

Offline dara

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2007, 05:43:55 PM »
Ah yes, chop chop's famous chocolate cake (got the recipe from her several years ago)... I'll get that to you really soon, I gotta get to bed for now... be making one this week for another birthday anyway... ;D
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Offline Julia

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2007, 11:57:24 AM »
I've tried 4 batches of buttermilk. The first two were slimy, the third turned out beautifully, and with the fourth, I was afraid of the slime again so I heated the milk first like I do for yogurt just to kill any bad bacteria that may have been causing the slime. Well, it sat for two days before it did anything. It was not buttermilk as it didn't coat the glass and had more of a thin yogurt texture. It had a strange, metallic sort-of smell. P.U.!!!! I used it to clean the garbage disposal. Did I do something wrong by heating it? I am just trying to make buttermilk-making more reliable so I don't waste so much milk.

Offline tropix

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2007, 04:26:16 PM »
I have several containers of whey that are quite old. One is in a glass jar, one in plastic. They are from raw milk. Just wondering if it ever goes bad? The one in the glass jar is really seperated into a big clumpy thing and watery liquid. Is it ok to use? Also, is it ok to have it in plastic or do the enzymes break it down?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 06:46:26 PM by tropix »

Offline boysmama

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2007, 05:31:19 PM »
I've tried 4 batches of buttermilk. The first two were slimy, the third turned out beautifully, and with the fourth, I was afraid of the slime again so I heated the milk first like I do for yogurt just to kill any bad bacteria that may have been causing the slime. Well, it sat for two days before it did anything. It was not buttermilk as it didn't coat the glass and had more of a thin yogurt texture. It had a strange, metallic sort-of smell. P.U.!!!! I used it to clean the garbage disposal. Did I do something wrong by heating it? I am just trying to make buttermilk-making more reliable so I don't waste so much milk.
Possibilities...
pastuerized at too high of a temp and damaged proteins resulting in softer curd and long culturing made it strong...
milk was still too hot when culture was added, buttermilk is a mesophilic culture which is about room temp this is my best guess...
room temp. during culturing was too cool, I have had this problem a few times recently...
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Offline Julia

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2007, 01:01:20 PM »
It was really cold those days! So I wouldn't be surprised if the room temp was too cool. I didn't have much luck when it was in too warm of a spot, so I didn't want to do that again. I didn't think I heated it too high - it didn't boil - do you think it's better not to heat it at all? I tried to wait till it was cool until I added the culture but it may have been slightly warm. I just realized I forgot to get more buttermilk at the store today for starter -- rats! I'll have to wait a week to try again. The batch that did turn out did make the most delicious pancakes!

Offline makingchanges

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2007, 03:36:18 PM »
Does anyone know if you can freeze buttermilk from the store? I'll buy some and not get it all used up before it spoils. I was hoping to save it.

Offline boysmama

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2007, 05:54:01 AM »
It was  I didn't think I heated it too high - it didn't boil - do you think it's better not to heat it at all? I tried to wait till it was cool until I added the culture but it may have been slightly warm.
I do heat my milk first but only between 145-150. This  is the only way I have found to keep my culture pure so that I can reuse it. When using straight raw milk it morphs into something else by the 2-3 batch.. Not disgusting necessarily, just not that cultured buttermilk flavor. Mesophilic cultures are very cool. 72* is the average ideal temp and much above 90* will kill it. I find it takes a very long time to cool the milk to that temp  ???

Here are a few bits from Ricki Carrolls Home Cheesemaking...
if tastes sharply acidic or slightly metallic, it may mean it has overripen....
less starter, less time, lower temp say from 72 to 70


if starter won't coagulate... temp. dropped to low, starter wasn't live,
milk contained antibiotics, residual bleach or detergent, not enough starter,


Offline carolinachic

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2007, 07:08:49 AM »
I think this question belongs here....
I have recently begun making whole wheat buttermilk pancakes instead of my regular whole wheat ones.  They taste fine, but I have trouble getting them really fluffy.  My orig. recipe called for flour, eggs, honey, water/milk, salt and baking powder.  All I did was substitute the buttermilk for the water/milk part, but I was wondering if I should have changed the baking powder to baking soda?  Is there anything else I should have done?  Thanks.                                                         ~L

Hi I just made some pancakes with similar ingredients. I does call for at least a fourth teaspoon of baking soda. I also substituted the milk for Kefir! It made for some delicious fluffy pancakes!
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Offline Whiterock

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2007, 07:15:41 AM »
Yes. Kefir pancakes always turn out very fluffy for me! It does change the texture of the batter though, so my pancakes are always "ugly" too. Maybe you could add a little kefir with the buttermilk.
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Offline boysmama

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2007, 09:08:38 AM »
Does anyone know if you can freeze buttermilk from the store? I'll buy some and not get it all used up before it spoils. I was hoping to save it.
bump for an answer... I wouldn't know because we always used it up so fast :) I'd guess that the texture would be slightly different, probably more watery after freezing/thawing.

Offline boysmama

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Re: Buttermilk and Cultured Buttermilk
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2007, 09:09:36 AM »
This may be a silly question. But does anyone know if the culture in buttermilk works the same as yogurt or kefir? My husband love to drink buttermilk with salt and pepper. (It is pretty good) And I would love to hear he is actually doing something healthy!!
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