Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls

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Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« on: November 14, 2006, 01:41:00 PM » by K.Sarah

Hi, I have been hearing for several years that this is a problem in the U.S., but have always prayed that my own girls (7 and 5) would have a normal childhood in that regard. Lately, though, we have started to notice that the 7 yr. old is looking just slightly different, perhaps heading towards some premature development. It's very slight, but as a mom, you notice. She's only 7! She's very tall for her age, as are all our kids. Anyway, I've been trying to think about what in our diets may be contributing. We eat "off and on" healthy, as I have been slowly learning about nutrition. The one thing that does bother me is that I am now informed about the problems with soy products mimicking estrogen, and guess what? During 2 periods of her life, we used soy for her as a substitute for dairy, hoping to figure out if dairy was causing some stomach trouble she had. We don't anymore, but I can't help but wonder if that was a problem. Anybody know anything about this? Or anything you can do to slow things down if it became a problem?

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2006, 01:52:22 PM » by SC

This thread may be of interest to you
http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2910.0.html

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2006, 02:05:13 PM » by his.silly.wife

Quote from: KristenC. on November 14, 2006, 01:41:00 PM

It's very slight, but as a mom, you notice. She's only 7!

I'm glad that you are noticing these things. When I started to develop, my mom and sister told me that it was just fat. Just what I didn't need at that age, was being told that I was fat. As it turned out, I was developing, and have the largest cup size in the family. Shocked

They are jealous now.

It is unfortunately a very common problem. The neighbour girl is starting to wear bras and she's only 8. Sad

Would a master cleanse help? It was recommended for PCOS, would help for this too? Just some thoughts.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 02:32:10 PM » by healthybratt

Quote from: SC on November 14, 2006, 01:52:22 PM

This thread may be of interest to you
http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2910.0.html

as well as this link http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2743.0.html

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2006, 03:07:46 PM » by IMPersuadd

Patti has the same thing going on with her oldest girl and knows some stuff about it. But today is her day out with her m-i-l, so either pm her or bump the topic a couple of times tomorrow so she'll see it. :-))
Lori

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2006, 07:31:57 AM » by K.Sarah

Thanks for all the links -- I wasn't sure how to search for this subject, really. I guess I have some reading to do on this .

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2006, 07:54:47 AM » by WithLoveAndJoy

I don't know much about the subject, but I have heard it said that the high level of artificial hormones in milk and meat that is raised according to the standard american methods of farming are in large part responsible for various developmental issues.

In other words, beef hormones to produce more milk might be causing young girls to develop faster....but I would look into it more.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2006, 09:53:22 AM » by KatieMac

Too much artificial light is another factor. Apparently when people went to bed soon after the sun went down and got up with the rooster girls developed later.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 10:35:29 AM » by miff aka Missi

I've heard all of the above things contribute to early development in girls (and boys). Hormones and steroids in meat and dairy... causing children to start puberty earlier and grow bigger faster. Back when people went to bed earlier because of less artificial light, they also had more laborous chores to perform. We don't have so many physical activities these days. Kids (and adults) don't move as much. I have heard of runners (women) that lose their periods, or they are few and far between. So, I'm thinking we definitely need to look into the natural food issue and get to moving more. I know around here we are not doing all we can. But that is one of the reasons I look at this site so much. Thanks to all of you we are starting to get on track.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Patti.

Missi

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 10:57:53 AM » by ShabbyChic

Yep. I believe all this. TOTALLY! My 11 year old niece was the LAST of her friends to start her cycle and she felt like a freak. ELEVEN. Shocked

I can't imagine that kind of responsibility that young. I started wearing a bra at age 10 because all my friends did, not because I needed one. But my cycle didn't start until age 14, and I was reading in the AboveRubies website that women didn't used to start until around 17. So of course women are running out of eggs and going through menopause earlier because everything is starting earlier, and they're pumped full of hormones their whole life. It's sad.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 11:17:00 AM » by WithLoveAndJoy

I am not sure about the whole most girls not getting their period until age 17 thing....

In most historical records most societies would declare a girl eligible for marriage once she had her first cycle, and most girls were presented for marriage between the ages of 12 and 16...anyone else heard this same info?

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 11:28:57 AM » by ShabbyChic

Yeah, I was always told that girls (like the Virgin Mary) were around 14 when they were married, and I thought 17 was old, too.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 11:34:19 AM » by Gabriel

I don't know that there is anything that you can do to slow down the development but I do want to point out (as someone else said their mother said she was fat) that our daughter gained a large amount of weight within a year. As a small child she was so thin and short so this was a surprise to us. She gained what seemed like 30 or 40 pounds in a year. During that year, maybe 18 months she started her cycle, started wearing bras and grew like the way you hear about boys growing! She is 16 now and not at all overweight. I just told her the other day that she looks like one of the beautiful women of yesteryear, not at all like the nasty skinny pole models we see these days. Also, I am so very glad that I kept in mind that girls develop earlier in our coutnry due to hormones and such. Being homeschooled helped I imagine. I can't imagine the torture my daughter would have went through being called fat or chubby in school.

I'm glad you are aware too. It's never to early to talk to a daughter about puberty once they hit the point that they are "showing". We embraced the changes and daughter has learned that to be a lady is a very special blessing!

Gabriel

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 01:02:56 PM » by Simply Kristen

Quote from: ShabbyChic on November 15, 2006, 10:57:53 AM

Yep. I believe all this. TOTALLY! My 11 year old niece was the LAST of her friends to start her cycle and she felt like a freak. ELEVEN. Shocked

Wow...the last of her friends at age 11!? That is shocking.
I 'started' at 13. My mom at 12.

Quote from: ShabbyChic on November 15, 2006, 10:57:53 AM

So of course women are running out of eggs and going through menopause earlier because everything is starting earlier, and they're pumped full of hormones their whole life. It's sad.

From what I have read menopause isn't caused by running out of eggs. It is a life cycle/hormonal thing. Women don't run out of eggs. My baby has eggs now....

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2006, 02:18:55 PM » by K.Sarah

Quote from: KristenA on November 15, 2006, 01:02:56 PM

Quote from: ShabbyChic on November 15, 2006, 10:57:53 AM

Yep. I believe all this. TOTALLY! My 11 year old niece was the LAST of her friends to start her cycle and she felt like a freak. ELEVEN. Shocked

Wow...the last of her friends at age 11!? That is shocking.
I 'started' at 13. My mom at 12.

Quote from: ShabbyChic on November 15, 2006, 10:57:53 AM

So of course women are running out of eggs and going through menopause earlier because everything is starting earlier, and they're pumped full of hormones their whole life. It's sad.

From what I have read menopause isn't caused by running out of eggs. It is a life cycle/hormonal thing. Women don't run out of eggs. My baby has eggs now....

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 02:23:09 PM » by K.Sarah

Well, I have to say I was early, too -- I was 10 years old myself, and had just recently been informed of all the changes that were coming up. My mom was not expecting anything till around 12. I also grew tremendously in one year. However, I don't think I had anything going on at all when I was 7, and that's what concerns me. Not that it will mar someone for life, but my girl is very young for her age, and I don't want to see her burdened with grown up things yet. Anyway, maybe it is all worry for nothing, and things will go slowly. We wil see.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 02:53:23 PM » by boysmama

I think you are right on in not worrying. Things can go slowly. I started budding at about 7- 8 years old, enough that my mom changed the style of clothing that I wore. However I didn't get my period until I was 13.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2006, 08:19:57 PM by boysmama »
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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2006, 11:07:26 PM » by nursegirl

I remember distinctly when my breasts started to be achey--I was 8 years old and in the 3rd grade. My mom told me what was going on, took me shopping for a (totally useless and unnecessary) bra, but wouldn't let me wear "fancy" clothes to school because I still played so hard. All that to say, even though I started developing early, I was still an out-and-out kid. I didn't get my period until I was 11 and a half, the same age at which my mother and sister both got theirs. So, I wouldn't start worrying just yet!

Sarah

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2006, 03:36:09 PM » by musicgurl

I have read about soy causing premature development in girls... we very carefully aviod it, Also, hormone fed animals that you may be eating.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2006, 08:16:40 PM » by ShabbyChic

^{From what I have read menopause isn't caused by running out of eggs. It is a life cycle/hormonal thing. Women don't run out of eggs. My baby has eggs now....}

Yeah, I know we're born with all the eggs we'll ever have, but I was told that menopause started when you ran out of eggs. Is this wrong? I am terribly sheltered in some respects! Roll Eyes

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2006, 08:27:19 PM » by jammy

One of my poor daughters started her cycle at the age of 10, and this was BEFORE her 14 year old sister who started about 2 mos. later. And now, this same daughter just turned 12 and has a pretty well developed chest. Like me in my 20's.... Roll Eyes

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2006, 09:57:15 PM » by mykidsmom

Hi Ladies,

I have been "computer down" for 4 days now but Lori told me via phone I needed to answer y'all so my hubby got me on just for this post!

Isn't he grand? Grin

My daughter started developing pubic hair just prior to turning 5yrs old. Can you imagine my shock! Shocked

I took her to the doctor and he said not to worry about it unless she started her cycle prior to age 10. If she did he would want to give her hormones to stop it. Apparently, prior to that age there's some "medical" reason they don't want girls to start.

I was not satisfied with that answer so we started researching and found just about everything you all have already stated. The soy was a big one because I had to give her soy formula as a baby. I was unable to nurse and she couldn't handle the dairy formulas. The second big thing is the hormones they pump into the meat animals and diary cows so they'll produce more, faster. In the hopes of arresting her development we literally overnight stopped all dairy that was not non-hormone, non-antibiotic. We also went to all organic meat in the same way. It was a huge hit to our budget at first until I got wise and learned how to do things but we DID stop her development.

She is 8 1/2 now and I would say that when she turned 8 she started to develop again but this is more in line with my side of the family. I was ten when I started my cycle and that was "normal" in my family. So her current development level is more in line with where I was at this time. She has lots of hair (no underarm hair) and is just now barely starting to get a little bit of fat pads near her underarm/breast area. She is stick skinny and I have noticed this past week that she has quite a set of hips developing but again, that is more like I was.

So - you CAN stop the development but you cannot phase into it. You have to stop everything cold turkey and go organic. I researched, talked to friends, etc. and found out that anything Tillamook brand (on the west coast) is made without hormones. Otherwise, I look for products that say "no R-bst." You'll also find a government disclaimer on those products that say "the federal government has not determined that there is any significant difference between products with or without R-bst." Yeah - okay. You can check with local farmers and ask if they know what products are sold locally or nationally that have no hormones/soy in them. We also stayed away from anything overtly soy. Soy is in everything so it's hard to avoid altogether but I just stayed away from mainly soy products.

As for the "how many eggs" question - I was told by my doctor that a woman is born with all of the eggs she will ever have. Menopause is caused by a drop in a woman's hormones however, it is possible to "run out" of eggs. Example - My sisters and I actually ovulate twice a month. On day 8 and on day 15. So essentially, I would have a harder time getting pregnant at an "older" age then someone who only ovulates once a month. But older women have a hard time getting pregnant anyway and I don't know what the percentage is that my chances are less likely. I just know I was told that although I may still have cycles in my 40's, I will probably not be ovulating at that time.

My two cents worth on why girls are developing so soon is twofold. I think it's a combination of the massive amounts of soy and hormones in our food and I also think exposing kids to sexual things at younger and younger ages turns the hormones on sooner then they would be otherwise. My observation has been (and this may not hold true for everyone) is that those kids that are in schools tend to develop sooner then those at home because they are exposed to sexuality sooner. Their minds start thinking about it sooner which in turn gets their bodies going. I also think that all of this soy in our diets is effeminizing our culture more and more. Not that that's the total cause, just that it contributes to it and once a male is more effiminate then the culture tells him he's gay and thus the behaviour comes forth. Just a random thought on that issue.....

Feel free to ask any questions and I pray you get your daughters puberty stopped. It was very distressing to my daughter until I sat down with her and gently explained what was going on. Now at 8 she can spout all the reasons why it's not good to eat "bad hormone" food! She's a great shopper at reading labels too!

Patti

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2006, 11:11:15 PM » by miff aka Missi

Quote from: patti on November 16, 2006, 09:57:15 PM

... Example - My sisters and I actually ovulate twice a month. On day 8 and on day 15. ...
Patti

Patti,
First of all, thank you so much for all of the information you have imparted to us. That is a lot to think about. I appreciate it very much.

Secondly, how does a person know that they ovulate more than once a month? Different cycles? I am a regular 28-29 day cycle gal. Would it be possible that I ovulate more? Or not?

Missi

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2006, 02:23:33 PM » by mykidsmom

Hi Missi,

I had two ways of discovery. One more "scientific" then the other. I've always been able to tell when I ovulate and on which side because when I drop an egg I can feel a twinge of pain. It's short lived and always happens on day 8 and day 15 of my cycle. The only real method of knowing is to take your basel body temperature and see if there is a rise twice during the month. It should go up a little bit at ovulation and then back down to your baseline if you don't get pregnant. So for me I have an "up" at day 8 and day 15.

Patti

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2006, 10:25:25 PM » by JAHKA

I have been reading a lot about the premature developement in adolencence and many people believe that it is from the milk supply. The hormones that they inject the cows with go directly into our milk and then into our bodies, that is why you are not only seeing girls develop early but you also see boys with breasts as well not to mention the obesity problem. The book the makers diet has alot of info on this subject.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2006, 11:57:28 PM » by ncgirl

I have a neice who started growing pubic hair at the age of 3. She has been taken to the doctor about this problem. They are keeping a check on her development. If she continues they want to do hormone therapy on her to stop puberty. If the body continues to grow in this manner it can cause the bones to stop growing properly, this condition is called gigantism (I think,I have been trying to find the name). So far she has no new hair growth. This thread has been enlightning to me and I will have her mom check it out. She is not a big milk drinker. I have often wondered if chicken could be a culprit in some cases like this.

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2006, 12:14:48 PM » by mykidsmom

Hormones are in pretty much EVERYTHING non-organic. They pump hormones into chickens and cows for sure. That gets made into cheese and yogurt, milk, anything else you can think of. It's not enough to remove milk from one's diet. You literally have to switch completely out of anything hormone to stop the development. If a person does this the development will stop almost as fast as it started. At least it did for my daughter. But again, there is no phasing in of this - one has to make the total jump to organic/non-hormone. Hormone therapy at 3 will mess that kid up for many years to come, if not the rest of her life. Please, please talk to the mom and show her this. That doctor is being too aggressive when they could just change this little girl's diet and fix the problem.

patti

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2006, 02:27:33 PM » by K.Sarah

Wow, thank you ladies for the info. I have wanted to go organic for a while, but hesitate because we can barely get all the groceries we need for the week right now! ( 2 in diapers and one, unfortunately, on formula). Anyway, I am going to try something, I guess, because I just really would like her system to work on schedule. I don't know, though, my kids are all really tall for their ages -- my girls are at least a year ahead of everyone else their age as far as height, and my youngest, a 7 month old, is in the 100th percentile for height, and is wearing 18 mo. clothes. Their dad is very tall at 6'4", BUT I am not (5'2"), and I feel like I have these gigantic children! Maybe she will develop early anyway, but I would rather it be on her schedule, not because of what she eats. Thanks so much!

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2006, 11:12:42 PM » by mykidsmom

Quote from: KristenC. on November 27, 2006, 02:27:33 PM

Kristen,

Your kids sound like mine! My hub is 6'1" and I'm 5'2" and all but a couple of the women on my side of the family are 5'9" and over and on my husband's side they are 5"6" and over. My kids are really tall for their age. My 8yr old is almost 5'! Eeks. She's going to pass me up too soon!

I was shocked at the beginning of this year when my 5yr old started wearing the cloths that the oldest wore when she was 7! I have a feeling my younger girl will be much taller then the older one.

Fun, huh - Being the shortest in the family? Grin

patti

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Re: Idiopathic Central Precocious [Early Onset] Puberty: Boys & Girls
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2006, 11:19:06 PM » by Pennie

That's interesting. My 3 yr old is wearing the clothes my 5 yr old wore last yr at this time. I tried to "chalk" it up to shrkinage in the clothes but it's shoes too. They can basically wear the same thing now it just fits them slightly differently. My husband is 6'3" and I am 5'0"

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